Abortion & Ben Shapiro | Philosophy Tube

welcome to my theater tonight I want to give you a completely new way of thinking about one of the most incendiary issues of our time so I'm gonna put on a show about a sinister kidnapper a provocative radio host and graphic violence a lot of people believe that fetuses definitely aren't people but others aren't convinced and Ben Shapiro is one of them so during tonight's operation I'm gonna assume that the pro-life people are correct when they say that a fetus is morally fully equivalent to a grown human being and I hope if you believe that you'll stick around and watch the whole thing so scrub your hands thoroughly sterilize your instruments and remember no smoking in the theater well hey there tonight we're gonna talk about abortion the Democrats attempts to subvert American politics and my leftist discourse has gotten so toxic online I'm Tom gently this is the Thom jela show I was at a Princeton University last week talking to pro-life students there about the left's continual failure to address any of the arguments from the pro-life camp they think we're all religious redneck bigots brainwashed by evangelical Christianity I'm not even Jellicle I was raised Baptist but a roe v– wade for our international listeners of which there are a lot I won't say thank you for tuning in roe v– wade was the absurd Supreme Court decision that found that a woman's quote/unquote right to privacy meant that states can't criminalize abortions there's a phantom right emanating from penumbra's in the law whoo and roe v wade was 1973 evangelical christians weren't even talking about being pro-life until 1978 or later and in fact many evangelicals supported roe v wade but the left failed to appreciate or refuse to appreciate actually that the pro-life position is supported by science the science of human development and that's where we're gonna talk about tonight but before we get into it I think I want to hear from you so let's go to the phones hello caller you're on the Tom gently show with Tom gently hello Tom longtime viewer first-time caller lovely to talk to you nice to hear from you is that a British accent yes for my sins I just want to say I think you're completely right about abortion I don't see anyone on the left discussing it honestly thank you I agree I see a lot of illogical and are bad faith arguments from the left attempting to dodge the central moral issue which is that the killing of human beings is wrong and your right to convenience can outweigh that I couldn't agree more I'd love to have a longer chat with you about this well if you ever in Washington I'll buy you beer how about that thanks for coming see you soon Ben Shapiro is an American media figure famous for his polemic style slick delivery and looking like the bad guy from the 2007 nicolas cage movie ghost rider the New York Times once described him as the cool kids philosopher which been champions various conservative causes including opposition to trans rights opposition to government action on climate change unleashing the darkness of Hell upon the souls of unsuspecting mortals and opposition to abortion I list them not to sway you because they're going to come up and for reasons that will be deliciously ironic later on he's also an extremely talented violinist in recent months various states in the u.s. have voted to criminalize abortion and in Northern Ireland one of the four countries that make up the UK it's been criminal since 1861 I assumed wrongly that the pro-life position was always a religious one because one of its chief supporters is purveyor of high-camp mild-mannered evil Pope Francis the only but Ben Shapiro showed me the truth although he is religious he doesn't support his position on abortion with religion and for me that's more interesting if somebody says they want to criminalize abortion because God says so then they'd have to prove that God exists prove he does say that and explain why the government should listen to God when he spends most of the year living in a tax haven and that's just not an area of philosophy I personally find all that interesting in the moment if God does exist and he's watching the show then Oh Lord if you please if thou subscribe and click the bell I know Ben is frustrated by people coming to him saying if you're pro-life why do you support the death penalty or Wars or why were you the bad guy in The Hunger Games film and I think I can help by being just a little more precise Ben is pro state forced pregnancy if somebody is pregnant he thinks it is okay for the government to make them stay pregnant unless being pregnant is medically going to kill them Ben says adult humans obviously have a right to life and then he points to fetuses and says look at X number of weeks you've got a heartbeat fingers toes they're human even at early stages when fetuses lack some of the things that groan humor have they usually develop those things so if we can't draw a certain line between right to life and no right to life we should act as if there is no line for those on the pro-choice left maybe we can see why we sometimes fail to persuade because those who support state false pregnancy have conceived a very different kind of argument if you believe that life begins at conception and that life is morally fully equivalent to a grown person it must be a little distressing to know that abortions go on then certainly seems very upset by it and if you believe as he believes and I'm afraid I've got more bad news fertility clinics where people go if they can't have babies delicately extract eggs from human follicles using a needle guided by ultrasound and then they extract spermatozoa that's the scientific word for jeers through a complex medical procedure known as wanking or if you're it put off at the idea of busting or not in a hospital you can use one of these $6,000 sperm extraction machines that'll put you at ease oh yes sexy they combine eggs and sperm in a lab and implant the resulting embryo in someone's womb so it can grow and they can have a belly when sperm meets egg that's what we call conception but they always make more than they need so they've got spares and they discard all the embryos they don't use so if you believe that human life begins at conception then I'm sorry to have to tell you that fertility clinics the world over discards several million more lives annually than you maybe even realized and I'm afraid the bad news continues even amongst people whose to get pregnant the old-fashioned way by holding hands with your wife and doing a special hug a huge number of fertilized eggs don't implant in the wall of the uterus and are passed out estimates vary between about 1/3 and 2/3 but let's take the lower end if you believe there life begins a conception and you might want to sit down because that means that approximately a third of all people die within a week of being created maybe you didn't know that several american law makers have been caught out not knowing even basic stuff about what pregnancy and abortion actually involve and that a little embarrassing if you support their cause maybe you did know it but if you support criminalizing abortion on the grounds that life begins at conception and you're not also thinking about fertility clinics or research to increase embryo implantation rates maybe get a little bit curious about that maybe you can see why some people suspect you of just wanting to control women it's not so much a comment on your conscious intentions as an explanation of why the focus seems to be on abortion rather than all fertilized eggs but anyway we're assuming for the sake of argument that life does in fact begin at conception ben says nobody's ever drawn that line between right to kill and no right to kill and he's frustrated that people dodge that so I'll confess I don't think there is a fact of the matter I don't think drawing a line even makes sense the philosophical discussion of when somebody becomes a person with for moral rights is absolutely fascinating but I'm afraid it's also completely irrelevant in 1971 the philosopher Judith Jarvis Thompson wrote one of the most famous philosophy papers ever in which she asks us to consider a very weird scenario where am I ah you're awake it is delightful to meet you at last Tom I'm such a huge fan of the daily fire you're a fan of my show oh the biggest when I tell me why I'm here there's someone I want you to meet Jesus Christ who is that he's resting that is paolo vin a tony one of the most accomplished violinists in the world paolo is very sick tom he has kidney failure unless he's given urgent dialysis he'll surely die and as president of the Society of music lovers I can't let that happen you have two beautiful kidneys Tom and now that you're connected to Paulo's bloodstream you're going to help him get better you'd grab me from my studio and hooked me up to this guy no I grabbed you from the carpark sorry about hitting you over the head by the way I couldn't risk knocking you out chemically anything that gets into your blood will get into power this is sick it's kidnapping I suppose technically it's illegal but it's all for a good cause how sure I'll politely ask you to lower your voice if you have objections to this arrangement I'm only too willing to listen to them but I must insist we have a civil conversation this is kidnapping it's kidnapping let's asshole I'll consent to a robust discourse but I must ask you to adopt a more friendly tone or I might have to go with my backup plan yeah what's that you want a volunteer no one's going to find us down here and even if they do you'll just tell them that if they disconnect your veins from Paulo now it'll kill him it wouldn't be right to punish Paulo for my sins that was you calling my show why me I knew you'd agree with me you're pro-life you support everybody's right to live no matter how inconvenient that is what you've always said yea yea yea I am pro-life I just you can't do this without asking why not surely Paulo is right to life outweighs your right to convenience whether I'd asked you were not I thought you'd be happy I am i I am I I just I'm not responsible for him being sick why should that matter I don't see why his right to life should depend on the manner in which he came to need your help you're his de facto guardian now if you pull out he'll die do you know what dying of kidney failure is like Tom if I unplug you now Paulo will get weaker by the second first he'll have trouble breathing the phlegm will build up until it bubbles out over his lips and onto his shirt he'll piss brown urine all over the bed as his hands and feet swell up and his veins jump out from his skin finally he'll lose all muscle control and lie there paralyzed shifting himself into a massive heart attack is that what you want to know I don't I want to help you I want to help the Society of the Society of music lovers you like classical music oh yes very much Vivaldi yeah in this school Paganini gesundheit how long do I have to stay just a few hours I thought you were gonna say nine months I like you you have a sense of humor and you stick to your principles so many so-called pro-choice leftists don't yeah you're right you're absolutely right they think that being pro-life means being anti woman but it doesn't it just means pro-life yeah you're right I'm I don't hate women I married one I have two little daughters Ashley and Rebecca you know I bet they're worried about me if you let me call them I can make sure they're okay oh don't worry now fine I would never hurt your family Tom family's the most important thing in the world yeah you're right if we lose family then all of this Western civilization it'll come crashing down nothing should replace family you got a family no I had a wife she thought she wasn't ready to be a family I tried to convince her I was ready but she went to the clinic behind my back and that's when I realized that you were right it's not just her choice it impacts us all that's why I knew you'd see this is the right thing to do to save Paulo when we stand by and let an innocent life be snuffed out it affects all of what happened to your wife there was a nasty fire Thompson's argument is obviously supposed to be an analogy for pregnancy and for us the question is if Tom gently is unplugged from the violinist and escapes should whoever unplug him be punished by the law what is more important the life of the violinist who is definitely a full person or the bodily autonomy of a conservative radio host held captive by a Tory maniac as the journalist Lorie penny puts it it does not matter where the fetus is a person's it matters whether pregnant people are you might well say that this scenario is unrealistic not to mention in questionable taste and I'd agree with you remember the whole reason we're considering it though is because we're assuming that fetuses are persons we've already entered unrealistic we're just seeing where the rabbit hole leads it's also unfortunately the case that a lot of sis men including many lawmakers can engage with this topic so freely because it's not a sight of pain for us as the Alabama Senate recently showed sometimes hearing real graphic testimony just doesn't work and so in order to bring this topic home to those people I decided to present this admittedly very macabre fantasy and maybe you think I stacked the deck like the film is shot in a sex dungeon there's a clear villain I'm obviously leading you to the answer that I support yeah okay fair enough at least I admit it if it's meant to be an analogy to pregnancy though we could tweak it what if the violinist was Tom gently 's brother what if Tom initially volunteered but he wants to back out when he learns what it really involves what if it wasn't a violinist with kidney disease fuck it let's go all in what if it was a baby and remember the question here is if someone unplugs him should they be punished by the law and he might be thinking well the arsonist should be punished the implication is that if Tom doesn't go along with it he'll be killed and many who support state enforced pregnancy including ben shapiro say if being pregnant is going to kill you an abortion is allowable but the threat against Tom isn't coming from his pregnancy it's from outside what if the police arrived take the arsonist away for punishment so the threat is gone and Tom is still plugged in is it okay to remove him some people say well there's a difference between withdrawing treatment like unplugging and killing like an abortion but if your argument relies on this factual and moral distinction between killing versus letting die then you are the one who needs to prove that distinction is there which isn't as easy as it sounds and doesn't even sound all that easy and even if you do it and you say I support criminalizing abortion because it is killing as opposed to letting die then that would mean that a pregnant person who starves themselves into stillbirth deliberately must be morally and legally okay which I'm guessing ben shapiro doesn't want to say moreover what if tom wasn't needed for a few hours but a few years or even the rest of his life you might want to say well then unplugging would be okay but if the life at stake is what matters then that doesn't change whether it's nine months or a hundred years if you support state force pregnancy but think the Tom shouldn't be punished for unplugging after a certain point then you've already agreed with the central claim of the pro-choice position which is that bodily autonomy can take priority over a life you're just haggling over who gets to draw the line and where what I like about Thompson's scenario is that it pushes us to that place of all-or-nothing if you're ben shapiro you have to agree with the arsonist and say that no matter how tom came to be there and no matter how much he suffers a human life is at stake and unplugging him should be criminal if a woman or a trans person with a womb can be forced by the state to use her body to keep someone else alive it must also be acceptable to force a man to do the same thing but speaking of grotesque medical horror that pushes the boundaries of taste here's Dennis Prager the haunted gamin mannequin behind Prager University a YouTube channel dedicated to misinformation funded by petrochemical billionaires in one of his famous fireside chats old Danny says that when someone is pregnant it's not just their body that needs to be considered he wonders why a baby outside someone's womb is assumed to have moral worth but a fetus within a parent may has none at all after all if somebody shoots a pregnant person most people would say that's worse than shooting somebody who isn't pregnant even the predator knew that in the documentary predator – so we think the fetus has value then but we allow abortions as if it has no value at all I don't get it and I mean I don't get it it's not I don't get it I don't agree I don't get it uncle Denny's pulling us sneaking on you though cuz somebody could say a fetus has moral worth maybe even for moral worth and still think that the bodily autonomy of a pregnant person outweighs it just like we could say coming in and shooting Paolo the violinist would be wrong but still Tom shouldn't be punished if he escapes a lot of people worry about the morality of late term abortions including many people who are pro-choice because they think that at some stage it has some moral value even if bodily autonomy outweighs it every time Ben thinks that an abortion like one day before birth that that's awful that's killing but what he misses is that if you go in at 39 weeks pregnant and say I don't want to be pregnant anymore they'll probably just induce birth they'll give you an injection or a pill that causes you to go into labor and it's very common one in five births in the UK are induced including me by the way you can't even build homes with fireplaces anymore is that why you didn't use a real fire for your video Dennis the fire never changes it's the same all the time it's a gas fire but he still puts the same log next to it in every shot to make you think that it's wood-burning I don't get it horrifying aliens who kill men for sport and the predator might find this hard to grasp but bodily autonomy versus human life is an area where the same person might have conflicting intuitions one of Thompson's critics was a philosopher named John finis who asked what if somebody wants to use their bodily autonomy to kill themselves that's a rough one many people feel that suicide can be a legit exercise of bodily autonomy at least sometimes because it's your life but on the other hand if someone is about to do it shouldn't you try and do something but on the third other hand maybe it shouldn't be illegal because we tried that in my country and it sucks what I think this shows is that even if we agree that fetuses are persons and that killing them is bad we would then still have to also justify government intervention so even if we agree with the pro-life position that morally a fetus is a human being that still doesn't actually support criminalizing abortions my feeling is it's a shame if the violinist dies but still Tom shouldn't be punished for escaping and just so nobody can accuse me of glossing over it I am logically committed to saying that even if it was a baby and he was responsible for it being sick to put this whole video in context imagine a chain and each link in the chain is like a different position somebody can hold some people already believe that life begins at conception they're the people I'm trying to reach and what ben shapiro does is he moves you on to the next link which is actually wanting to criminalize abortion even though as we've seen the arguments don't work which leaves me curious about how he's moving you from here to here well if you ever in Washington I'll buy you beer how about that thanks for calling see you soon so we're talking about abortion we're talking pro-life and this is all connected to the ways in which leftist discourse has gotten so toxic online I've said before a lot I'm not against birth control I think it's good we have a huge overpopulation problem I'm one of my two beautiful daughters are old enough I'll tell them you want birth control drive down to the CVS and get some condoms okay that's your decision that's your responsibility but it's not health care but the left will not have an honest conversation about this so here's an honest history lesson birth control oral contraceptives was invented by eugenicist Margaret Sanger one of the founders of Planned Parenthood believed that the birth control pill should essentially be used to stop the weak from reproducing and the left let's talk about what a noble organization Planned Parenthood is oh we have to defend Planned Parenthood didn't talk about that they won't acknowledge that okay that's the first thing right the second thing is that they tested the first forms of birth control pill on Puerto Rican women without telling them what was in it it was in illegal I actually don't know about a lot of time but immoral certainly medical experimentation on these poor women who suffered the awful awful side effects do you know what the first country to legalize abortion was Soviet Russia that is the legacy of the left position on abortion but they will not talk about that let's talk about what President Trump he's ignoring the plight of Puerto Rico we gotta save Puerto Rica pathetic Arab Republic in their care I say the caber they don't Margaret Sanger by the way was against abortion so it was also that but they don't care my Puerto Rico here's an article from The Huffington Post about Jasmine Sherman she's a black pro-choice campaigner a woman in North Carolina pro-choice and she says that white women white a pro-choice females will turn out to fight for quote-unquote abortion rights okay but when she's organizing black lives matter protest or whatever suddenly nobody turns out and of course if they really cared about black lives in America they'd be to stop abortions not encourage more killing of babies I mean god I I thought black lives matter but not when their unborn I guess so why did they keep talking about it I'll tell you why it's because abortion is just the first step to their plan here's a quote from a black feminist scholar Dorothy Roberts were quoting a black feminist on the Tom Neeley show this is what the left don't have there's nobody on the left it goes the extra mile and actually does the research for you guys nobody who puts the hours in I mean it's like philosophy and that's it Betty when they become on my show he won't debate me so here's Dorothy Roberts true reproductive freedom requires a living wage universal health care and the abolition of prisons black women see the police slaughter of unarmed people in their communities as a reproductive justice issue they recognize that women are frequent victims of racist police violence and that cutting short the lives of black youth violates the right of mothers to raise their children and healthy humane environments so the way I like to imagine this is I like to imagine a chain and each link in the chain represents a different position if you're pro-choice if you believe in a woman's quote-unquote right to choose then the next link in the chain is stuff like abortion on demand hash tag shout your abortion as if it's something to be celebrated and then the next link in the chain is gender ideology saying oh it's my bodily autonomy to use a public bathroom that does not match the sex I biologically M and if you disagree with my right to do this then I'll call you a pig on Twitter and then the next link in the chain is this believing the police officers doing their jobs is somehow a threat to bodily autonomy and then if you were links in the chain and you're into socialism you're into communism you're into oh we need open borders and we need to abolish prisons we need to give all the land back to indigenous folks we're all gonna hold hands and live in harmony they don't just want abortion to be legal sometimes they don't want safe legal and rare they want a total transformation of American society we're their radical interpretation of what bodily autonomy means is valued everywhere some people have suggested that Ben's appeal is that he talks very quickly and confidently which he does but I think it's a little patronizing to his audience they aren't complete tools I think he's offering you something else Ben is very good at controlling discussions to make it look as if they are a competition that he is winning everything Tom gently said about eugenics and history and how pro-choice movements can sometimes forget bodily autonomy is irrelevance earn elsewhere that's all true but he sells it as this is ridiculous rather than here's an opportunity for you to learn more Ben offers you a reward for agreeing with him the fun of intellectual victory and it is fun a lot of leftist media can be a little bit Dara and snooty because we live in a horrible world and things are serious and snobbery is darkly pleasurable but ben shapiro crushes and clashes he's a gladiator who cares about facts and logic and reason whether he ascribes these labels to himself or not they're part of his appeal and I'll let you in on a secret playing Tom and gently is so much fun it's like da ming but instead of a collar and a leash it's a microphone but anybody can learn to present like that as demonstrated by the fact that I play ben shapiro better than ben shapiro tests and if you can master that tactic of appealing to your audience's needs to feel dominant you can sell them bad arguments like this what up YouTube it's you boy the dribble lighter check this out ben shapiro thinks climate change is real but there's no need to do anything about it he says that until the left proposes a simple solution and all the science comes in the government shouldn't get involved but this logically contradicts his position on abortion because the riot hasn't proved that fetuses are people all propose the simple solution to that so by his own logic the government shouldn't get involved with abortion it's a complete logical file anyway guys smash their mother like button if you want more drivel and follow me on twitter at complete drivel if you want to see daily drivel selfies fucking whore that was a cheap argument Ben could with nuance explain why he doesn't think climate change an abortion map on to each other in the way that that supposes it's also not a logical contradiction action that just sounds good but this is the same argument Ben makes in the now-infamous ben shapiro destroys transgenderism in which he says you can't change a boy into a girl can you change a human being into a moose if you call yourself a moose do I have to take you seriously it's the same cheap trick assuming without argument that gender and species map on to each other and using that assumption to make somebody else look silly you wouldn't pass philosophy 101 with that but the video has 5 million views and a lot of the commenters love it ben shapiro is the cool kids philosopher he's the philosopher for kids who really want to think that they're cool which is like the least cool thing you can do besides being English and a youtuber so what are the alternatives to Ben's style well one is to just take a piss Ben is notorious for offering to debate people who disagree with him and Ben if you watching I will absolutely debate you son but only if I could do it in character as Tom gently but if you're brave enough there is another way and this is why I personally find ben shapiro a really fascinating figure his competitive style is the total opposite of what i do he smooth his audience's insecurities and says you worried that you're a loser no you're winning you want to think that you're clever will agree with me I'm clever whereas I very deliberately crafted this show in such a ways to make our insecurities yours and mine not only okay but part of the learning and let me show you what I mean many who support state enforced pregnancy dwell on the grisly details of surgical abortions Ben tells horror stories about blood and suction to make a kind of argument from disgust and that's a persuasive place to argue from because you can look strong while you're doing it it appeals to people's desire to banish things that are icky trans folks do a similar thing sometimes highlighting the shocking bloody aspects of gender conforming surgeries I've actually seen live surgery in person I once saw a double lung transplant done on a 16 year old girl and the way that worked content warning is they took a scalpel and they made an incision down her chest and then they use the heat gun to melt through the lower layers of skin the smell of burning human skin is quite unique and then they took an electric saw and they soared her sternum in half that's the bone here and then they cracked it open with a rib spreader and the junior surgeon said to the senior surgeon do you pull the saw towards you or push it away from you and the senior surgeon said oh I always pull it towards pushing it away is too American so she's lying there with her chest open on bypass and I can see her heart flopping around like that and they cut out both of her lungs scooped him out and they took a pair of donor lungs from the ice box which had come out of a smoker who died in Edinburgh that morning I have seen a smokers lungs I was 17 sweet Jesus Christ I quit smoking that day they put those grey dead things into that 16 year old girl suctioned out the blood and soda rot and that was some of the most visceral shit I have ever seen in my life I had to use the sperm extraction machine after that one let me tell you but as any good novelist will tell you wherever this discussed there's always a little bit of beauty as well which is why arguments from disgust don't work once you confront the thing that they encourage you to banish there was something beautiful in that whole team of doctors trying to help that girl and in her bravery so I know better than most sometimes quite graphic operations can produce devastating beauty and Ben Shapiro might say was different kind of surgery and abortion ends a life whereas an operation that saves somebody he's obviously going to be beautiful but I didn't say that she survived even in death the argument from disgust doesn't work no matter how slickly you try and sell it and you can't feel like you're winning when you admit that because it makes you feel some fucking feelings and on this show that's how you know the philosophies working that girl didn't have to have that operation there were other treatments available that were less risky but they were more about managing her condition than getting rid of it her disease was gradually undermining her bodily autonomy and she decided that that was worth risking her life for and in the end it sadly wasn't to be but that is how much freedom of body matters you said I only had to be here an hour now he telling me I can't leave you realize it's hard lines but his conditions worse than I thought and Paulo's life depends on you I can't stay here the rest of my wife I'll be here for you we can get through this together just until Paulo dies of old age he's brain dead he might recover well he's sure as shit not gonna play the violin that doesn't matter he's a living being need to let me out right now I can't unplug you that would be murder now it wasn't right to lie so what so what we kill people all the time soldiers cops sick people old people just just cuz I can save his life doesn't mean I should have to it's my decision he's right to life outweighs your right to convenience and I see no reason why that should cease to be the case whether he needs your kidneys for an hour for the rest of your days what possible reason can you have I don't need a reason it's my body if I want to do something with it I can't that's what freedom is I don't have to tell you why I don't even have to know why the fact that I wanted is enough I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I am in you told ya you know what I don't care you need to let me out now as you wish I can't keep you here against your will that would be immoral I'll let you go home to your wife oh and your two daughters Ashley and Rebecca but number 77 Thompson Street Columbia Heights please just let me go I will let you go Tom I just need you to do one thing for me first I need you to look into this camera and admit that you were wrong

25 Replies to “Abortion & Ben Shapiro | Philosophy Tube”

  1. In my opinion if you have sex then conceive you are responsible for delivering the child because you know its a possibility that it could and can happen. but you are not responsible for other lives also I make exceptions for abortions when it comes to rape and life of the mother because in rape you didn't start off with the choice and when its the life of the mother she shouldn't have to die but she can if she wants to.
    Being forced to use your body to support someone the way you showed it to me is like rape but if you decide to use your body and support someone then decide to stop makes you kind of evil because you took the chance knowing this could and can happen.

  2. 3 comedic jabs before the state forced pregnancy argument doesn’t distract from the absolute absurdity of the argument.Suicide is either completely illegal or partially sactioned under very specific guidelines in civilized society. The man from India taking legal action against his parents for being born is laughed at, mostly because we all understand it sets an unrealistic and unenforcable precedent. abortion can only be defended from a purely rational view point that ignores any understanding of morals and ethics, any good faith defense of it must acknowledge this!!!!

  3. Getting pregnant is a choice. This whole video conveniently skips over that. Getting cummies from strangers isn't a human right, but not having your limbs cut off and skull crushed is one.
    Negative and positive rights, learn the distinction

  4. Responding to your kidnapping analogy: The person to first instigate force against another is responsible for all subsequent transgressions. For example, if a bank robber threatens the teller with a gun, and someone intervenes but accidentally shoots the teller, the bank robber is still the one to blame.

  5. I was on the fence, and was sympathetic to pro life arguments. Before this video most arguments pro choice arguments made by people were really bad. This put me firmly in the pro choice camp.

  6. Your arguments don't exactly counter Ben's because you haven't tackled the fundamental principle of his reasoning for abortion, which is: Every human is protected by human rights (that's the secular version)
    1. State forced pregnancy assumes women's rights are special or supersedes human rights. If both the woman and the baby are human, then the state is protecting the mother and the baby's right to live. They are both human, so neither life should be deliberately taken.

    2. Fertility clinics are still committing murder if they're killing embryos or fertilized eggs because they would be considered human according to him. I don't know whether he is aware of this.

    3. The musician's cause of death isn't due to the man being unplugged, it's the illness that was already killing him. No one should be punished because they tried to do CPR on someone who became unresponsive due to an illness, but gave up because they couldn't go on or chose not to continue for other reasons. The illness was killing the person, not the person who stopped doing CPR.
    You also compared the value of the musician and the radio host by their values, personality, and occupation. The foundation of Shapiro's argument is that everyone is of equal value because we were all created by God. According to Shapiro, every person in that room was protected by human rights given by God. The only person doing the violating is the arsonist, he forced a radio host to do a blood transfusion, and killed his wife by burning her.

    4. Whether it's a baby or a musician, they are both human. So it makes no difference whether he was hooked to a baby or a musician. Replacing the musician with a baby is an appeal to empathy because people feel more empathy for those who are more vulnerable. You should be arguing to get closer to the truth instead of appealing to empathy. The fundamental principle that Shapiro puts forth is every human is of equal value. That's not to say that the radio host can't voluntarily choose to stay plugged, , but it's not considered immoral if you go by his reasoning.

    5. It's okay to remove the radio host because the illness was killing him, not the police or the radio host. It's only hard to make the distinction between killing and letting die if you don't believe every human has human rights. A woman that intentionally takes action to harm a baby isn't ok. They are both protected by human rights and the woman is violating the baby's human rights. There are laws that punish humans that intentionally harm other humans.

    6. Depends on what you mean by moral worth. An unborn child hasn't made choices yet, so the child is considered innocent. That argument by Prager is too vague. There's no need to weigh moral worth, if you're human, you are protected by human rights. The mother, the unborn child, and the shooter are all human. If the shooter violates the rights of the mother and unborn child, then the shooter should be punished. Tom shouldn't be punished if he escapes because the musician was already dying from his illness. Also note that it doesn't mean you can kill a person who is already dying, but you can let them go.

    7. Inducing birth isn't an issue, killing babies are an issue to him.

    8. First link is abortion, which according to Shapiro is murder. Murder is a violation of human rights and anything that violates human rights should be criminalized. He's made the link very clear.

    You should have steelmanned Shapiro's arguments before building your counter. You haven't countered the premise of all his abortion arguments: All humans have human rights. Shapiro uses a variety of persuasive techniques in order to win debates, but so do you. You use humour.

    Shapiro said his whole family talks fast, that's just what people with his genes do. I enjoyed watching your video though, I like the way you edit

  7. I just noticed The Arsonist used the argument from disgust when describing how Paolo will die so that Tom takes pity on him. Well done Olly.

  8. This guy graduating in philosophy is beyond me. His arguments are
    1. There are more other fetuses being killed and dying on their own.
    2. Not killing them violates women`s Bodily Autonomy™, imagine violating your Bodily Autonomy™ your whole life!
    3. The world is cruel and "visceral" stuff happens, my film is also disgusting, mental and utilizes the ben shapiro meme in a most autistic and emotionally impaired way.

  9. There is a clear difference between letting someone die and killing someone which makes your analogy nonsensical

  10. Best damn video I have ever seen that takes on the nasty end of Abortion. Gotta be able to give more of a thumbs up for this one. I always went with a different argument, illegal abortions are not impossible.

  11. You’re blowing my mind with this video! I love the way this video makes clear that its point isn’t to DESTROY Ben Shapiro with FACT and LOGIC.
    It’s to debunk this idea that abortion is a morally clear issue with a definitive right and wrong answer, when in reality, different people can come to different opinions on the matter and shouldn’t treat each other like reprehensible monsters simply for holding the pro-choice opinion.
    People are entitled to their own opinions on how to best handle this very morally gray situation

  12. My only problem with this argument is that you seem to forget who caused the pregnancy. A better analogy is if you were driving drunk, got in a crash, and the person you injured needed a kidney. You caused the problem in the first place. You are morally culpable. If you think you should be forced to give up one of your good kidneys to save them, then you are probably pro life. If not, you're still going to jail. Sure you killed a person for no reason, but hey at least you're morally consistent.

  13. While I don't fully agree with this video I can't act like it doesn't make great points and I believe Ben should debate this guy.

  14. Hasn't Ben said on multiple occasions that he doesn't think the mother should be punished? And that it's the person carrying out the procedure who should be punished?

    Well there goes most of your video…

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