MCC: ABORTION!



hey people gray here just a quick preload before I start with this little bit of a discussion you see I sat down with Kezia the girl who I shouted out before the one who was with the Lawrence unnerve and etcetera etcetera you you all know who I'm talking about if you've been watching my videos you know it turns out we disagree on a lot of issues it's actually really cool because well you know we're both okay with it and frankly we both think yeah this is actually really awesome that we do disagree and we're willing to chat about these things now to give some context and trust me I'm going to be hitting this a lot more over the coming weeks Queensland is currently going through an enormous abortion reform process it's due to either be voted in or voted out well tabled I should say on the 16th of October so there's a whole bunch of events coming up and whatnot pro-life pro-choice that I'm going to be attending on the ground filming etc etc before we jumped into this discussion she told me that she had a lot of issues with the abortion reform and of course this piquing my interest I then went across and said well okay how about we sit down for an hour or so and have a chat the original discussion went for about three hours because we kept ducking and weaving into random ass topics we tended to just diverge wildly so I've edited those things out of this to keep it on topic what you're about to listen to is basically my thoughts versus her thoughts on the topic of abortion and trust me you're going to be hearing a bit more of this over the coming weeks because again this is a big thing that's happening in my state and I figured well it is related agenda politics and it does get me out into the street and it does get me filming people and that's why I bought the damn camera for and that's what I intend to do so hell why not personally I haven't deeply considered what my thoughts are on abortion because it really hasn't been on my radar at all I suspect however that that is going to be something that will be evolving over coming weeks months and whatever else that I continue with this so of course without further delay please enjoy this conversation I'm not going to put really any sort of like visuals over the top of it I don't think it's particularly worth it there will be links in the description for the things in which we are talking about during the discussion so if you want to read about those things then please be my guest otherwise in that treat this like a podcast and basically put it on the background and yeah enjoy see you kids hey people gray here I'm sitting down with kids hey you go cuz yeah really good sweet alright so let's talk about the new stuff popping up in the Queensland and electorate what's happening with abortion because that's going to be a big issue coming up over the next few weeks if not entire month so unfortunately you're not going to be around to enjoy all this you'll disagree aren't you sucks I really feel like I'm missing out but you're gonna be here so yeah absolutely and I'm gonna be ramping up my sort of in-person activities over the next month so this should be quite entertaining so next Saturday on the first there's the pro-life rally that's going to take place I've never been to a pro-life rally so I thought you know what if I get a new experience let's go let's see what happens I think I have a general idea of what to experience and there are some people there who would like to actually meet me in person they've reached out to me on Twitter so I thought screw it let's go meet them see what happens but man this is this gonna be contentious for those who don't know Queensland our home state is going through a massive law reform taking place on the topic of abortion and they're not even referring to it at bortion at though they're referring to her this termination which I thought was an interesting use of language but I noticed you were expressing to me when we were both at the Brisbane rally that took place recently you're expressing me you had a lot of problems with it and you disagreed with it right yeah so the bill that the Labour Party drew up that they put to Parliament I there's yeah I definitely have like a few things and I just think are a bit upsetting about the whole whole thing mm-hmm so I was looking at the publication put out by Queensland Health so I just sent that to you is this the one that you were reading accurate to what do you recall do you want to take a quick look at yeah I have that appendix one but then I also have the full the full drop like the bit the written out bill by I don't know you have a digital copy me no I don't I should have had one I got this off um one alight but this is like the actual draft I'm sure you can look it up hold on I'm sure it's somewhere but it's the actual bill that they're that they've put to Parliament with all the different bits and pieces but I haven't seen the the Queensland Law Reform one I haven't seen that that actually looks so short compared to the actual bill it's really wrong really yeah this is basically a bite-size variant of it because I went over the this document that said last night I consider myself well I actually consider myself pro-choice and I consume I saw pro-choice because I see it as a lesser of two evils I think that banning the practice outright is more detrimental and worse off than it is to have it in active presence I'm not sure what your positions are though I well yeah I don't know like I guess I have my own where where I stand morally where I feel about that it's wrong but I can yeah I guess like we'll get in and talk to it because I also think that I think that it's kind of areas like it it's not practical to think that we are ever going to have abortion completely decrement like criminalized like no abortions no matter what and I think that a lot of the people who lobby for pro-life of like fighting for no abortions no matter what under no circumstances anything and then people on the other side are saying yes we need abortions da-da-da-da-da and like I just think this is just me trying to like explain to you like how I got this isn't like so bad at talking but a help helped me feel like understand in my head like I think that um if I feel like there's middle-ground like for example like this bill is saying how it like you can terminate up until 22 weeks no questions asked like that's a gestation period but then you can still have an abortion up until the day before the baby's born I think that's disgusting and I think that instead of fighting for no abortions at all which in my personal opinion I I really believe that abortion is murder and you know I know that's not a very popular opinion I would I would even be happy to see only abortions in the first trimester I I would be happier to see that then abortions so I think there's either one extreme or the other and I think if we can come to some sort of agreement like in the first trimester or something I think that will save a lot of lives well I I'm sort of similar in that because slightly I'm I'm totally okay with first trimester issues because if if memory serves me right from my university days the the fetus itself and again if memory serves me right could be wrong but as as far as I know the the fetus itself doesn't have like a fully offer not Jesus doesn't have like a fully operational nervous system at that point so it's it's not even really aware of anything if it's even considered its own independent life so at that point I don't even really see it as ending life I see it as preventing life which is in my mind actually very different like it's the difference between reaching into a room and pulling someone out of a room versus letting them even go into the room to begin with so I I see they're very different once you start getting past the first trimester though you know you you do start entering into that realm of like serious gray area and the 22 weeks that's was that four and a half months I think it is so you're into like halfway into the second trimester at that point I'm if I'm correct yeah it's it's over I think that yeah 22 weeks is 20 weeks is second trimester I think so it's in – yeah well in – I need to read up on all that stuff but ya know that's really interesting but I would even say that like the gray area is in the first trimester because went like how you're saying like ah like when is it preventing life how do you know that what we go and what you're doing the first trimester so I think this so like I feel like just about everyone has a will tell you like at this point it's maybe no at this point it's very no that's points are like this point there's no no one can come to a clear decision all sorts of scientists are saying different things religious people just everyone everyone's all over the shop there's no actual this is a life this is on a life so I guess everyone go to me yeah yeah I do I suspect that when I go to the pro-life rally on the first I I expect that they'll probably be some real family first is there no and I run into a lot of them in the election cycle and I like to sort of you know poke and prod them every now and then but I like to screw with religion in general it's a bit of a part III didn't start I didn't start with gender politics I started with them well only enough Scientology and then evolved into other religions I was I was one of those people back in the day but we have to like have another cause because I am religious actually I'm Christian so we'll have to have like a conversation about that as well oh well I mean I'm I'm about as atheist as could get so yeah oh good it goes back in it goes back to to the old good old days but the thing is is some of the family first is I find hold to a lot of abortion principles that life begins exactly at conception and I kind of think that's a bit silly and and the one thing I've looked at is like okay so sperm goes down fertilizes egg that's when life happens so if we would somehow magically through science or watch and remove that egg before it even involves itself into the the walls is that still murder at that point and not only that if that's the case like if if I jerk off is that genocide it like seriously like it's a genuine question because how far back does the life argument go yeah and am I actually is like am I actually committing genocide at that point I think it's probably different for women because I don't think you could see an egg in the same way as you could see a sperm I think like who's like there's a lot more animation on one end of the whole spectrum but like I I'm just guessing here because yeah but the thing is is like I I find those perspectives to be ridiculous especially considering if you're talking about such an early principle of conception the moment that's life like to me if you were to stop it to that principle it would be nothing more than just destroying a bunch of cells I if you if you stroke your arm or scratch your nose you're basically doing the same thing at that principle so is technically also a murder I don't think so and for me I don't see a problem with that at all and even as we're getting further down the trimesters yeah it's the cutoff principle it really asks one is there because I'd oblems with it in definitely third trimester damnit that's sort of I I really struggle to like understand like the way you're talking I totally understand where you're coming from I don't necessarily agree but I definitely see where you're coming from and I think that you can make a valid argument and we can really sort of go back and forth and discuss it but once it gets a trimester I mean you just look at a picture it's a literal a little tiny human like Tanya it's you there's no like leave it you know it's got a different blood types and the mother you know a mom doesn't have two hearts in her body it's a completely different thing within the mother's body so yeah I just think that's I was talking actually there's because this the bill is coming up there's so many people doing a lot of the pro choices are out doing what are those things roadside pickets what are those called like little protests where they hold up signs and they say honk if you agree and blah blah blah oh okay yeah yeah and um I was talking to some girls the other day and asking them when you know at what point is it not okay if woman to have an abortion and they would know a young girl's mind and they were telling me like ah yeah like I would even be okay with the day before you know a woman has her reasons la blah blah and I just think oh my gosh them good reasons yeah and the day before that is so crazy because and this is the thing is you can't time these things like people have babies like prematurely and you can keep them in incubators and things like this so when you know if one woman gives birth a few weeks earlier than expected right like well I see if you're if you're coming from I just like just like don't say just like off record I really feel like I'm gonna conquer stupid because I ramble a lot and I just go I don't know and I have conversations in my head and then it does not translate out into actual words are you gonna be a great youtuber don't worry about it that's fine that's like half the conversations it's like you've got Twitter in your head it's all good know what I say how do you how do you contemplate the the whole because like with it with abortion it is a it is an entirely female centered narrative right the male does not come into the narrative at all which I think should I mean it takes two to tango can't get pregnant without a man oh well it's 2018 come on well are you assuming you're assuming Regina my god I know that it's controversial but that's I'm gonna say it that shouldn't be controversial but it is I know yeah so how do you how do you deal with this is like you know if you're if you were around at the time what you won't but if you were and you want to run up against these people you're inevitably going to come up against the thing of well why are you fighting against this because you're female oh yeah how do you deal with that like like they're saying you should be for women's rights because you're a woman yourself yeah exactly I think that's the same thing with anything like black lives matter and stuff like that people who lack and they don't support black man and they go well you should be because you're black I don't what is that I do that identity politics oh yeah you and I mean like so yes I am the one who's gonna eventually get pregnant one day but I think yeah I don't know I think also it's it is fighting for women's rights because a big thing with this bill it allows gender selection abortions and we it's actually like becoming more and more of a big thing especially because Australia so multicultural we've so many different religions people from just about everywhere and um and women girls are the ones who suffer from gender selection abortions and you know the male is the one who carries the name and you know a lot of these cultures and religions men are worth more than women and so it's crazy to me that the feminists aren't actually saying hold on actually gender selection abortion is anti woman why aren't feminists fighting against gender selection abortions OJ's right yeah you could ask the question of why aren't feminists fighting for X and so many different ways okay so with the protests are taking place the pro-life ones on the 1st and the the pro-choice one is on the 18th but the bill is decided upon on the 16th and I got thinking why is it that the pro-choice is two days after the rule and really I can only see it as either it's either going to be an outright celebration or it's going to be an outright call to arms and there's no no way around that it's either going to be those two things so that'll be interesting I think the bill will probably pass honestly yeah I think the only way from different lobby groups that I've spoken to who are lobbying against this bill from what they've been saying is because it's actually like a young a conscience bug yeah so they can vote anything that they want so basically they said that they need everyone all the conservative members to vote all the liberal members to vote no to the bill and they need I think seven of the Labour MPs to also vote no so it's it's going to be not very good chances yeah it's gonna be really hot so I mean if you're listening to this and you live in Queens and in Britain and you are against this bill or whatever then you need to the only way this is going to be stopped as if you contact your like local MP and and just encourage them not to so that's what a lot of the lobby groups are doing at the moment because that's that's the only way at this point I I do think that the bill will probably go through yeah if we're at this point oh yeah I the only problem I had with it the only slight issue I had with it yeah going from the small sheet that I sent you I mean if in the event that the pregnancy is threat life of the woman and this does not specify how viable the pregnancy itself is right so I would be much different if the pregnancy is non viable and there's no way the child is going to live and they'll threaten of the life of the mother that's a bit of a different story but it says here that regardless of the objection of determinant of the abortion for the from the woman's perspective and also the matter of medical practitioners it has to take place if it threatens the life of the mother I'm not so sure how I feel about that because there's like a sympathetic libertarian part of me that's like I don't know man you got a you go let people be other choose and decide what they want to do and if someone wants to if someone's in a position where they could die giving birth to a child but they would rather I to give birth a child I think that should be their right yeah yeah that's really interesting I didn't know about that but it I mean like if the if they force the mother to have an abortion she has to live without the rest of her life knowing that you know obviously at that point she probably you know that's my child that's my baby and that's just a little bit forever allowed really suck because again it doesn't specify if the chief the child itself is viable yes it doesn't even address it it just says in those rare emergency cases where it's necessary to provoke preserve the life of the pregnant woman that's I don't know how I feel about that well yeah that's so interesting I was listening to a doctor like he was an abortion doctor actually well actually I know he was some sort of doctor dealt with babies and things like that and he was he was giving a talk and he was explaining how because I guess one of the big arguments that people say is if there's going to be a complication with the pregnancy and the woman's life is in danger that she should be allowed to have an abortion and he was basically explaining that when pregnancies come up and I'm not sorry any more pregnancies when complications come up in the birth it's usually a lot you know in the second or third trimester if it's in the first trimester usually the you know a woman's body will deal with the situations you might have an emission carrier or whatever the body sort of deals and it's not such a big deal because the the baby the fetus what everyone call it is still so small so the at the time complications come up it'll be in the second or third trimester and by that point an abortion isn't he was explaining how an abortion isn't really the way to go because the baby so much bigger that an emergency abortion won't work how it has to be if it's you if it's too big to be out of reach on its own they'd have to c-section it yeah so he said it's never an abortion it's always an emergency an emergency birth and because the way that they had to do it they'd have to put some some stick thing up up her vagina that over the course is like 72 hours or something expands because the baby's so big and then they have to go in and take the baby out and stuff like that so that's how they do an abortion over the – over when it's later in the in the timeframe sounds horribly painful yes but but basically if you want to have an abortion in your second or third trimester its it's not just a quick fix because of course it's a bigger baby so it takes time to get it out and you have to make this directs the uterus bigger or I don't even know my medical terms at this point but basically he was saying if there's an emergency complication with the woman and she's gonna die or something they don't have 72 hours to perform an abortion at that point they have to do an emergency birth and sometimes the baby can live and sometimes it can't so it really an abortion isn't the answer for if a woman is you know of course you've got to do everything you can to save her life but also you can still save the baby's life in that point interesting I don't know overall I don't have too many issues with what I've read of the bill so far like I actually I actually agree to an extent with the 150-meter protester ban because I've been to some of those events and I'm more like I agree with the principle of its free speech but some of the stuff that I've been to it doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like they're out there just giving out protest you know leaflets and stuff because with my history of that I've been to a couple of these and some of them are like they're right up in people's faces screaming at women as they enter the facilities I know me neither I think that's a bit yeah yeah but I mean I can see it from their perspective though because these are people who've you know absolutely believe that they're screaming at murderers and I can understand the impetus to scream at murderers but like I don't have an issue with the the safe well they call it safe access zone but I'm trying not to say safe space because that is what yes no it's see I totally get I totally agree with what you're saying on that point it is people protesting out of bullsh and things and yelling I'm going again things I don't think that's the way you you fight something like this and I don't think that's the way that you can translate your your point across to people I'd yeah I just think that's wrong I think it's not it's unkind I understand why they do it because they really you know but I guess my issue with safe access zones is that it's not just about the protesters like for example if you know a boy got a girl pregnant I don't know they're dating or whatever and she says I'm gonna have an abortion he says no darling like please don't get an abortion like I'll support you or help you raise a baby you know he's the father he has some say and this is his child but obviously no one ever talks about the the man it's always the woman's choice the man never gets a choice in this but if even if he was going with her to the clinic and saying please don't please don't I really don't want you to do this I'm you know he even can't come within 150 because if he continues he could be put in prison for a year and that I'm like wow that's insane I think even it was saying like religious pastors of it was something ridiculous like if anyone who says anything negative or disagrees or anything like that within 150 meters can be put in prison for like a year which i think is so I understand about protesting but I think if you're you know mother or a husband saying please don't do this please like there's other options maybe we can do just let's just think about this for a second or so I don't know it's it's such a hard one I think abortion is such a just like emotionally charged subject I think it's gonna be a good thing to hit over the next few it's gonna be hardcore on I just saw another link is this the document you're referring to it's got a nice blue front up to it this is the other one I was looking I didn't read this one last night because it is gigantic yeah well hi I'm a bit of a nerd when a policy so I'll probably read yeah yeah it's back in uni me here I go but is this the type of thing you're referring to yeah it looks like a table containing yeah but it's not that long it's like oh how many pages is it the one that I have is like I think it must be taken from it it's 15 pages when I've got and it's the draft so it must be yeah yeah it's definitely like part of this yeah where'd you get yours I got it from cherish life I okay right yeah so I was talking with them because they're lobbying against this and so they do a lot of stuff in the media and she gave me like a whole bunch of different things like that yeah also before talking about do you happen to have a young like a page number on yours or like them reprinting editing so I'm a big you know site your shit type of yeah Queensland termination of pregnancy goals this is lip – 4 – you're 2018 a bill is that on your page it should be like the third or fourth page past the context yeah a bill it'll have as its thing oh god yeah yeah that's it yeah all right good let me just okay so let's let's sort of go through this and work out what we've got an issue with cuz like you I think you've probably got more issues with it than I do but that's probably because I may or may not be gauging this I think like you were expressing me last night that there was a reasonable amount of issues you had with it and I was like hit and miss because I hadn't read it etc etc um there's a few things so okay obviously like I do and I and also here's another thing is I don't want to talk about religion or like I have my own like moral values about this but I like for example if I was saying to you like oh yeah abortion is wrong because God said so in the Bible you would be like okay yeah you would be like um I'm an atheist so it doesn't matter what God says cuz I don't even believe so I'm also you I'd also quote biblical passages of like drinking bitter water and inducing pregnancy in people but yeah so like I would like I'm not going to use like my own this is just like skip this but so some of the issues that I have it so obviously I think that it's up to 22 weeks gestation and then up until the day before the baby's born I think that's disgusting and I think it's wrong beyond it you just cannot abort a baby the day before I also think the route because there's literally for any reason you want an abortion so that includes sex selection which I also think is wrong I think yeah I think that what is a good reason to have an abortion so so many social reasons it did you have an abortion there's no safeguards for women there's no cooling-off periods or in court informed consent or independent counseling offered to women and I think if if this this is a women's issue and if feminists really care about women they need this is a woman going making decision to have an abortion he's going to want her for the rest of her life and and so to not give her cooling-off period counseling all sorts of things give her all of her options everything is I think is wrong and I think it's it's leading people to make a decision that's gonna impact their life that they don't that they don't have all the information on you know like if you go to any doctor to get a knee surgery or anything they'll explain to you what the surgery looks like they'll explain to you what they have to do why they have to do is all the different things and then they'll send you away for a week so you can think about it process it then you book the appointment and then you go in and you do it with abortions they don't do that say okay you want an abortion okay not a problem let's do it um quickly on that point let me show you something you've still got the you've still got the tab for that this short one that I sent you scroll to the bottom of it it's got a comparison of each of the different states and what I think is interesting on your counseling point is the only state that offers it happens to be W a nobody else does except for W a yeah that's the only one that proposes counseling and I mean I can see where a frustration is in that because I would expect that there probably would be a degree of counseling involved in it yeah it's it's the thing is is and there's so many studies there's so many studies that were women who have abortions deal with so much whether they realize it or not so many like depression and anxiety and all sorts suicidal thoughts so many things but everyone says no abortion is perfectly fine so they can't understand why they're having these feelings it's so and it's so harmful to the woman like all sorts of complications can occur abortion isn't a safe procedure always there's always a risk of death or hurting another organ or something like that in the procedure also it can cause different like breast cancer and all sorts of different cancers you know when you're pregnant your body knows what it's doing and it starts changing and your you know your breasts get bigger and all sorts of things that's producing them all this sort of stuff and if you have a miscarriage your body knows how to deal with it and understands what's happened and it goes through the whole process but if you just have an abortion take the baby out your body's like what the heck I don't I don't understand what's going on and a big big cause of breast cancer and all sorts of things in which so it's not it's not just a safe easy you know getting your tooth pulled out procedure it's actually something that mentally and physically affects women and I think that the feminists if they really truly care about women's issues they need to look carefully uh-oh at this at this bill and that really actually giving empowering women to make the right choice but by not giving them all the options not saying hey you know what there's actually you know adoption or you know maybe use a condom or something I don't know there's so many things why are we using abortion as birth control well we're primarily not I mean most of the most of the things that go through it are trying to get comprehensive sex ed in our schools like you wouldn't believe so that we don't have to go down this path well there are lower Labor's and greens and some even liberals to try and do that well but yeah I got a I got a sort of go back to that though did you did you just do the whole abortion causes cancer thing like did you seriously just do that in every case the body yeah but the like when when I have gone down this road in the past because the the religion aspect of it they're so far from what I've seen the only groups that proposed that narrative happened to be a lot of the religious groups and most and the vast majority of scientific community like that one's a big red flag to me I can't ignore that that no everyone that I've seen from the medical aspect alike now it's kind of bullshit but you know what though I think that I don't want to I don't go into religion with this but I think that the most people who are anti-abortion are religious people oh yeah of course so I think that's probably why yeah probably I think I think it might be you might be a grasping at straws sort of thing and they happen to sort of go over it I think there's better ways undeniably a whole bunch of other things like it's just it's just not a good I would certainly agree with mental instability I would say only agree with issues to do with emotional instability because we we also know that like prenatal depression is a very well recognized thing so there's no way that you know aborting would not produce some form a similar result I'd imagine so I mean I can definitely get on board with the mental aspect to the whole thing I don't know but the cancer thing but that's actually a really interesting point but yeah I do think question I should say that yes so it's throwing me off completely I'm like no so just like keep on going I'm in the bill I think it's saying that abortions should be done in public hospitals for free and I don't agree with taxpayers money going towards abortions because I think there are a lot of people who disagree with it well that's interesting also there another thing is doctors with conscientious objections must refer abortion so maybe a Christian doctor or a Muslim doctor or someone you know any doctor who morally they think it's wrong to do an abortion if a woman comes and says hey I want an abortion and he doesn't want to do it he has to refer her to someone who will and the the practitioner though also gets registered themselves as not being part of it so they don't they get avoided in future so it's like one of those sort of you know one-time sort of things like okay you're one of those doctors that disagree fair enough we'll hand it off to someone else we won't bother you with it again so I'm not sure if you're aware of that element of it I didn't I didn't know that but when I was talking to some of the lobby groups they were saying that they had a lot of doctors I guess specifically maybe Christian doctors or you know they were just like this when it they said that they would if this bill got through they would quit the business they would what the proof though would quit the profession because it goes against what they believe in because it almost makes them feel like they're taking part so I didn't that would end up being though I don't yeah I couldn't imagine a lot of people doing it but I also think that if if someone comes to me and says hey you need to do this I should be allowed to say sorry I don't do this go find someone else I shouldn't have to be forced to say oh well you know otherwise I can I think in the bill it was I'm fairly sure when I read it the other day that it said that if he doesn't if the doctor does not refer them they actually can get in a lot of trouble and all sorts of things like that which i think is right that's ridiculous why should he get in trouble because he doesn't refer her you know I mean it's it's sort of a hit and miss I can understand why it's in there I mean if the if the woman is going to a private institution probably that sounds like it might be overreaching on their part um in terms of the lawmakers maybe not on the part of the public I'm I'm kind of in favor of the idea of the public institutions having tax money go because well because if it is like because their their argument right their argument is to take this out of the criminal code and put it into the health code that's their entire argument so the same laws that would apply to if you break your arm a leg would apply to this and I'm okay with the idea of having my taxpaying money going towards people who have broken bones in the same vein as this I I don't know if I have an issue maybe it's my personal position because I am technically pro-choice maybe it is I don't have an issue therefore I'm okay with my tax money going towards it yeah but see I wouldn't know I think that a broken bone is different to a human life you know and and because I think I think at the end of the day we can argue back and forth of whether it should be legal or illegal but I think at the end of the day everyone needs to come make it the decision in their mind is it a human lives with Val or you know inside as is it Cetus and does it have value and does it have rights and if it does well you know do you agree with it being taken out of the criminal code though do you agree with it being moved into a health code how do you feel about that because I'm ok with it I think it's probably a good idea because I see it as an aspect because I don't see it as a crimp I don't see you know the reproductive cycle is a criminal action I can understand you running up into the street with a sword and stabbing prepping women in the gate that's a that's a crime yeah I don't see everything taking place in a medical environment under medical supervision in medical environment you know practitioners care well I don't see that as anything other than middle the medical you agree with it being changed how do you feel about that you know what I do I haven't thought about it in that way of web output and I and now that I'm like oh my gosh like I don't even know because I can I'm just like going back and forth like I'm like would I agree with if a woman got an abortion her to go to prison and I might I don't know but then what about this like let's like talk this out because I I don't know where I stand on on that but what would we say to a woman who's pregnant and her boyfriend bashes her up and as a result the baby dies should he be charged with murder buried under the fucking prison yeah so was so would it but how but if she decides that it's not a life and she wants to kill her baby that's not murder it depends on me as to what the viability of the fetus is though because again we come back to both at the same you know I think it is different same at the same I think I think it comes down to autonomy because in the instance of the boyfriend it's not her choice and he is making a willful action to fuck something up and I do see his intention to kill the baby but he still did it though it still happened yeah so like it's not my intention to run the kid when I'm going through the school zone at 100 but the point is is I still did it like you know a hundred going through them breaking every law is like in the case of the woman because like there is an element of consent involved in this situation isn't there because the woman is going down a consent path what if I what if we had a different scenario where the guy says I don't want to be a father I'm not prepared I don't want to go down this path and instead of looking at the MRA talking points which I've been looking at quite a bit recently I know what they say to this they don't propose what I'm about to propose but what if what if you had a situation where the guy said okay I don't want to have this kid I want it's my consent the state removes this child mmm force my wife my girlfriend to undergo a pregnancy that would be more because because that is different isn't it then the woman saying I want to go on to do this because you're to me that is different I see it as a very different scenario I see it as one person imposing their will upon another versus one person themselves imposing a will upon their own faculties yeah but what about like both men and women imposing their own on the baby look at the bit at the end of the day the baby the fetus of whatever you want to call it is the one who has no choice in this if he gets beat up and you know the boyfriend beats her up and the baby dies that's not his choice if the woman decides to kill I just say one thing that I find really interesting is if a woman wants a baby it is valuable thing everyone is like wow first the baby you know people ask how's your baby they don't ask how's your body absolutely it's it's just amazing thing it's a miracle of life everyone's so excited this baby showers a session she be happy yeah if anything you know she can sit down on the so everyone has to get up all the stuff if anything happens to the baby she has a miscarriage it's so sad all of the different things it's so sad it's a it's a loss you know they'll have a funeral for the baby she has a miscarriage or what all this but if she's pregnant and she does not want the baby it's worthless it has no value and nobody cares she should be able to where do we draw the line does that make sense to you I see where you're coming from I really do who decides whether or not her baby has value or not I think it should be that way in terms like in in the environment where we are permitting abortion to take place in diet II I think it should be the woman's choice on whether not so not valuable whether it continues to exist well I I'm not so sure if it if it does have the same level of rights at a point right again we come back to though dogs have more rights than a human fetus I think that's true I think legally speaking is certainly right down a tree a bloody tree for goodness sake without you know going through things yeah with the Green Zone fetus no worries because one person decides whether it it's valuable or not and another woman in the exact same position who's pregnant I mean this just cannot comprehend that two women both pregnant baby at the same time one one me so it's super valuable and it's amazing and everyone's like amazing and then the other one doesn't want it and it's worthless but it's the exact same baby mm-hmm but it's just an opinion of a woman because to take the take the the MRA sort of position on this when it comes to the male position they argue that men should the ability to forfeit rights to the child so the the MRA s that I've been taking a look at because there was a couple of comments on my previous video in the March for men thing where they're like look up this this particular concept and the concept is if there is a situation where the guy does not wish to be a parent he can legally sign his rights of and it is treated as if it is a abortion in a sense that this man has no rights to this child at all he is not encumbered to any legal standings that's it you're done so he doesn't have to pay no it's it's out of his hands go away you have no rights over this child legally speaking right so it is a complete final utter cut off right Wow that's one things that they're arguing oh just out of curiosity if the is so the father's name wouldn't be on the child's birth certificate or I don't believe so I think it's a complete nutter write-off Wow I don't know if it would ever work out that way though because I think that it is a different scenario you like if you go through that process and the child is stillborn that child still exists you can't actually get away from the biological connections right but they are also looking at at a the same context of sperm donor so in the instance of a sperm donor the person doesn't have rights to that child even though biologically it's technically theirs it's just that this person is a phantom of their heritage and they don't ever interact with them and I thought that's really interesting um apart from that how do you feel about forcing a woman to undergo a pregnancy when she does not want to have a child yes because that's another thing because like you go back to all the foundational like ideas of where their first abortion clinics came from you had all the coat hanger issues which people make jokes about but it's absolutely gruesome and all the rest the whole Mary Stopes and all the rest how do you feel about that do you think it's ethical to force a woman to have a child hmm it's see this is it's so hard because it's such great it's so emotional and so you think like where like and this is where all the arguments of like if that woman if she was raped as and as a result you have to have this child mean it's really really upsetting and so that's is I don't think so I think that honestly that woman should be another chance I don't think that especially you also think about some of the environments that the women who are in this position come from of which I've met a couple they're not usually of the most either a stable mind or be stable foundations that child is probably not going to come up in the best of environments either so I don't I don't know like this is where it comes down to me with the lesser of two evils which is where I stand on when it comes to abortion I'm not sure if it is ethical also to force a woman to undergo this and I think it is less ethical to force a woman to undergo this also well yeah it's less ethical to force them than it is to allow them to undergo the procedure yeah I still see both as ethical issues but I see it is the better option to undergo yeah so yeah it's so it's it definitely pulls on the heartstrings but I oh shit yeah I also think that this for the times that this happened it's a really small amount of times and I think that but I think that the you can't change an entire law and a lot like at the end of the day you either believe it's a lie are we just using this argument to allow anyone so for that in those situations I totally want to scream and shout and say she shouldn't have to have the baby Derrida but then morally I go but it's a but I do believe that it's a life and I do believe why would you you know do more horror to an orrible already horrible situation but I think that I wouldn't want to make abortion legal for all reasons because sometimes that happens and also for women who maybe weren't using protection or you know she just cuz I got pregnant I just don't want to have a baby and then goes and gets an abortion I think that's a different situation I think I wouldn't become I don't agree with a woman you know not not protecting herself or just being irresponsible and getting pregnant and then just going and terminating the pregnancy because she doesn't you know I think that's a different situation and I wouldn't say let's make it legal judo knows how I feel like I'm rambling maybe let me try again make as many times as you want like I was I was looking at a news report I'm currently just browsing through my history to see if I can find again but they were citing they were citing some rather alarming numbers about about how many women in Australia undergo every year and it was in the it was in the five digits category getting pregnant by rape no no no in terms of just abortions okay yeah yeah in terms of abortions so how many of them were being undergoing the process and like I mean we look at the rape aspect and we go oh that's absolutely awful and indeed it is but I'm thinking about the broader spectrum what would drive a woman to go down this path in the first place like the rape is a very easy obvious one that we'll all disagree with but I'm still thinking about what would drive a woman to undergo such a circumstance I don't think abortion yeah what what would push a person to go down this path I don't think they'd be in a position because I know that from some of the statistics I was looking at last night we're not talking about 30 year olds we're talking about a lot of underage people a lot of people that have made a stupid mistake and haven't realised and they haven't told people and they want to keep it under wraps I just want to go down like I know back in my high school days I knew two girls then went through this so I mean my school was a bit of a crap fight because in science class we'd have chemical fights gosh like what actually throwing chemicals at each other sometimes but I had the laughs we had I love my school my school was crazy we had our our pool right where we'd all go and swim and do our athletics and the boys and the girls change rooms were so different dude that I I had to once because they would lock the change rooms but once they'd locked the boys change rooms and I was too busy fucking around the pool so I had to go into the girls to change and I noticed immediately how differ it was first of all everything perfumed and second of all the girls had doors on everything we didn't have doors in the boys we had wheelie bins we kicked the doors off the hinges event yeah we didn't do that we were too busy bullying the weak among us and towel whipping them and then throwing them in the pool all their naked boys oh my god is that sexism again disgusting but anyway the thing is is like I I am willing to bet that the the age demographics in which this takes place and the mindset in which the woman who is undergoing this procedure I'm willing to bet that it is not great I'm willing to bet it's in a very desperate scenario one who really doesn't have any options whom probably is not ready to be a parent under any circumstances and if they have it they're probably going to really screw up their life hi is it is it Y is adoption never an option I think adoption is but I think it's it is frowned upon quite a lot I don't I don't know I I knew a couple there were the nicest couple in the world and they were on the adoption list for like nine years or something ridiculous they couldn't physically have children oh that's what you're referring to okay yeah yeah they really really wanted kids and yes when you're like trying to adopt there's so many rules and all sorts of things you have to go through so they could never leave the country for longer than I think may three months or something like that they always had to be there and they put nine years so that their whole life was like put on home because they so desperately wanted a child and it sort of finally happened once it but the rule was it was a woman and she wasn't she already had some kids she wasn't able to look after the zone so she gave them their the child and they had the kid for about a week they were so happy and then she decided that she wanted to take it back and I think from what I remember that was you know once the adoption you can take the child back for any reason at any time um like a year up until a year and then it's finally theirs does that make sense so they they had this kid for about a week and then the mother decided to take the child back and they were so heartbroken and they finally like we can't move out like we've been put our lives on hold to nine years like we need to just take out ourselves off so they took them so sad because there are actually people who so would be amazing parents loving caring people who just want children and they can't and then there are other people who were making silly decisions and just you know ending the life when you know what you can turn a silly decision into something that could be really beautiful for somebody else and a pregnancy doesn't have to you know if you ask any woman who got pregnant when she was a teenager and ended up having the child she is not going to say this ruined my life I so regret having a child they love their children they you know so there's no woman regrets having a child I don't think and if she does oh to know about that have you not seen some of those because have you not seen the Facebook group the there was a couple of really interesting ones at one point with the the like parent secret confessions so you have like the Cutie confessions forums well there's like parents confession forums and there are people who are like I really regret having kids and a lot of you know there's women like that I mean I really wouldn't broad-brush a lot of women with that because again well I'm willing to bet there probably is quite a number of people especially because you think about if if the numbers I was looking at before are correct that there's like a five digit figure of people in Australia that undergo it every year I'm willing to bet that there is a lot of regretful actions taking place that they weren't ready they weren't happy I may like maybe you're right maybe but also there's like I think every woman and I can't say every because it's always going to be no you really can't say every but I really think that women and men are so different I think absolutely have have a motherly nature about them and I think when they you know get into relationship and because I want to have a family and it is a natural instinct with a woman to want to have a child and I think when you have a kid something takes from like lots of mothers that I've spoken to you know I obviously there's going to be acceptance but I think that generally speaking mothers loves their children you you know and that's why a lot of like this this woman who gave her child up for a week to these people took it back it's something so it's part of who you are and so I think that this if there's nothing there's I just think that we also live in a society today especially with like Millennials or young people or whatever that there's no consequences for our actions anymore there used to be back in the day if you make it you know a silly decision you had to live with the consequences and you had to deal with it and you know move on but nowadays you make a mistake oh no worries we'll just erase it there's no learning curve for people and and I do not think you know getting pregnant as a teenager that really sucks and I really feel for girls who you know something's happened and you know they just want careful or whatever that really really sucks but I don't think that you can I think that you can turn bad situation into a good situation I don't think that just because you get pregnant as a teenager that's ruining your life and I think a lot of people can say that but also being a mother is a really amazing thing and I think that motherhood is not I think feminism is ruining motherhood actually feminism is saying women should be having careers and doing all the sort of stuff but women you know I guess I guess maybe I'm more conservative or traditional in the sense that I think that women should you know have kids and be raising their children and be mothers I think being a mother is probably the most important job you can be you know you're raising the next generation so I don't think that a stay-at-home mom is something to be frowned upon and I think feminism kills that and says that it's ugly and it's awful and it's a bad thing um but just just sort of quickly back to the sort of abortion thing I've just been skimming through a lot the the provision and they've they've got a section dedicated to offenses what would be considered a legal offence under the legislation dropped this is in the draft year so there are fences first of all most if you're a protester obviously the safe access zone that's a bigger bet you can be reprimanded and/or fined and or put in jail if that continues for too long also there's a lot of there's a lot of laws around filming of the people in question so you can't you can't have any audio or visuals that could potentially identify who the person is leaving or entering you can't have any identification at all of any sort the only thing is if you have a reasonable excuse so obviously like CCTV part of the actual environment but that's that's interesting I wonder how they're going to fully police that yeah I don't know how they will fully police that with the age of smartphones that sounds a little bit intriguing to me and you know what I say I I don't know if this is like right or not but it that makes me think of the whole thing that happened you remember was it a year ago there was a journalist in the States who went into land parenthood and they basically got undercover and got a whole bunch of footage proving that the Planned Parenthood was selling the baby parts on the black market and all the sort of stuff was all proved and and all this sort of stuff and then now he's going to Hort I remember that I remember that but wasn't the person asking it for medical reasons and that that clinic itself I remember that there was a another bunch of elements to that story though because I recalling correctly the like we know that there is a practice with stem cell research because the the fetuses themselves basically loaded with stem cells and I'm not so sure that the political like there was a big political element to that I'm not so sure if that was entirely fair I think that the guy the the people in question if I'm recalling correctly went in asking on the grounds of research and at the end of it I don't think they even achieved their goal I'm pretty sure that the people in question were like look we'll send it to you but you have to pay for I think it was refrigeration of the parts for obvious reasons and he was asking on research grounds and now I'm pretty sure that was excute rather out of out of order I'm trying to remember like this is years ago is having a long time ago I wouldn't be able to say anything for certain but from from the point the I don't think what happened it seemed like it was all all proven that there was this dodgy stuff going on about selling the parts as I remember back in the years like I know Alex Jones was having a big thing about it and all of a lot of yes well I heard that there was a there was a few things that took place online cabal that sort of a tactic that is actually scary but you know a different topic for a different time but yeah I'm just looking at their their legal thing here so they they class it based on distribute so if you're communicating it to anyone if you're publishing it on television radio internet newspaper or pretty much anything in any form of communication at all yeah police are exempt but that everybody else it's a full-on penalty and fine and Maxo was it they specify one year imprisonment you're arming and distributing evidence of people entering and exiting these environments I don't know how I feel about that yes I understand why don't I I think it's a sensitive thing and I wouldn't agree with someone going and filming like hey why are you doing like this same with people protesting out outside the front of those things mm-hmm but I also think being sent to prison I'd be a mich oh yeah yeah it might be primarily as a like a deterrent but I have a feeling that that's something that they would actually enforce quite strongly if this goes in and would be forced to apparently the 150 meter can be insufficient and can be extended it can also be reduced if there's no possibility of it being 150 meters I think it's interesting so obviously if it's like in a small environment that's a block yeah or if it's a large environment that's too big of a visibility I'm assuming that if you're on the same Street or something like that or within the same Street on the same block and you're pretty much screwed that's interesting is that there's prison time for that isn't there as well if you violate it yeah absolutely again same same instances and I think this is interesting because again when we're going back to the removal from the Criminal Code so if if a woman were to were to basically run out of options and do it herself right now without medical advisement or anything like that she can very likely be prosecuted for murder which is interesting but this bill removes that criminality so for woman does it herself by herself just whatever that doesn't count as a criminal offense if this goes through and I I think I agree with that I think it's like horribly dangerous I think there should be a lot of like counseling element sense and like let's let's really make sure this person is okay but I I think it makes sense for it to not be criminal how do you feel yeah I I really don't know because because it tugs on the heartstrings that's what it does and it's hard to think about something that's so like emotionally charged you know like I don't know who knows logicals that I would but in a way that's like well like black and white I don't know it's so it's so hard then like he's gotta round and round and round but I do it but I keep coming back to like the instance of if a woman does it if a woman kills her own baby it's okay but if a man or anyone else kills her baby then it's not okay hmm but do you like I agree I think that I think that makes sense yeah and again it comes back to what we were discussing before where I think that makes sense because it's a consent thing yeah so yeah I find it very interesting though the baby though like no sense to kill a baby a man can sense it I don't know yeah the reason being is because this bill presumes entirely that the the fetus itself is the woman's body yeah it does not specify that there is a separation point I'm kind of okay with that but I'm again I stress kinda yeah don't know if I'm fully okay with that yeah I do think that it should be classed as a secondary element or at least lack of better words a parasite for a period of time but like I mean it is technically a parasite it is living off of the woman's body but it should at least be considered something that isn't the females yeah it's a different situation if a woman decides that she wants to cut off her arm because that is the body but this it's it is not her body this inside of her body this class is saying though of course yeah yeah from your perspectives your criticisms of this would probably be probably your biggest I'd imagine cuz like even the 22 weeks thing I don't think would be bigger than that would it what do you mean well because if like if you come from the bills perspective that the the thing inside is not actually a separate entity it is part of the mother it is the mother yeah that's how the bill looks at it but your Prime I'm willing to bet your primary criticism is that it is a separate entity and then because it is a separate entity therefore everything else needs to be considered completely differently yeah yeah I think that's a good way to say it if we were talking about her arm she can cut her off her arm at any point in her life that she wants she can you know choose which arm she wants to cut off or how much of the arm she you know whatever that is her decision I don't agree with it and I go honey don't cut off your arm he's that but it's her arm and and she's forced to cut off her arm if they don't want to but I but yeah but I don't believe that it is her body I believe it's something else in human life in her body so when the inevitable protest comes out by the feminist groups on the 18th when they start screaming her body her choice that's something that you would just fervently disagree with well yeah I mean I'm standing to like what I say because I don't believe that it's her body yeah so is it still her choice um well it's the thing is is I think that it's it's another human so I think it's the same thing like his firm his choice you know just because it's inside her body doesn't mean that just because a woman doesn't want her baby doesn't mean that she gets to decide you know I don't know like her body her choice if it was her body yes I believe that women should have the choice to govern their own bodies it is not a living human being in her body it's not her body it's inside of her body it is not her choice whether she can kill it or not it is not someone else's choice whether that can die or not I think at the end of the day it's a moral argument and it comes down to whether you believe it's a human life with rights or not mmm well yeah I mean I totally agree with you I do think it is exactly that as well yeah and I'm not sure how people can bridge the gap on this cuz I'm like no I'm a master ticket for sitting down or I'm a political butterfly I'll fucking talk to anyone [Laughter] political butterfly I've kept with that for years cuz it was originally referred to me I'm like yeah a flutter anyway okay I'll sit on I'll sit on anyone's nose I don't care but that's what butterflies do is videos and photos and whatever else but yeah like I look at a lot of issues and I say okay we need to bridge the gap in order to come together so that we can come to a compromise or an agreement on particular things and I look at like I even look at things like anti-fur and versus the world because realistically that's exactly it is it's a damn versus anyone else that isn't cuz average people and not when it comes to the important issue and this is why I think it's gonna be so interesting to be exploring this over the next few weeks when it comes to this I don't know if there is a common ground I really don't because from from someone of my perspective who does who does empathize with the idea that it is her body I don't know if I fully agree with it but for someone who does empathize with that and yet can also see why people look at it and say no it's a completely separate entity and it should be treated under a different category I can see both of those perspectives and those two perspectives are incompatible they're not compatible they are completely separate how will we bridge that gap I don't know if we can I really don't and yeah cuz I try to think how I came to my perspective and I just came to my perspective by going and saying well I think that out of the two the woman should have the most choice and I don't think it's the guy's right to tell the woman what to do in this case and therefore I just can't decide with them like ah ha ha ha man I'm going to enjoy these next week's it is so interesting and like I think I was saying before like there's no one this such like a it should be legal from the second trimester on the 3rd or the first or it becomes a life at this point it we come everyone has a different opinion or when it becomes alive and when it's valuable or digital isn't it's so diverse of lack of another that's another word that I'm like a diversity but but it's so like wet like honestly like where and I and this where I'm like even though morally I really I would in my ideal world I suppose I would want abortion to be completely illegal because I think there are better ways like obviously bad things gonna happen but I think that we can use protection and there are other ways of prevent yourself from getting pregnant and if you do get pregnant I think that abortion isn't always answer I think you can have the baby and you don't have to keep it but but I don't think that it's realistic to ever say that it's going to be fully illegal because I think that's just the way that the world is going so I would be you know I don't know if happy that I would but I would I would be with this bill I really disagree with it but I would if they reformed it and said okay abortions only within the first trimester I would be a lot happier with that even though I wouldn't be like completely satisfied but I feel like we can we find a common ground can people who are pro-life and pro-choice say okay let's meet in the middle somewhere and not be either extreme i I think I think honestly the closest thing to common ground would be comprehensive sex ed and the reason why I say that is because it solves it is a compromise because it solves elements of both parties because if you have a situation where everyone is fully informed about sex ed and they understand the things that going into and like we know that abstinence only education is a disaster it will create far more unplanned pregnancies than people who know what the hell they're doing and how they go about things so I suspect that the closest thing we have is if we want to prevent the optimal amount of pregnancies from ever happening therefore we don't have instances where people even consider abortions because there's no need to um the the most important factor to find any form of common ground will be in comprehensive sex ed but so many people have such an issue with comprehensive sex ed it baffles me I mean I we have such an uncomfortability around it and it annoys me because what I don't think we should but we do but yeah like I I would suspect that if like for everyone everyone should be in favor of full-on you know full-on contraceptives across the board I think like IUDs and the pill should basically be free I honestly do think that I think condoms should be free I like I'm I'm getting into my red flag elements here but like the fact is is I think that because I believe that it is the best possible way to allow people to indulge in the inevitability of having sex which just will not be stopped it is a biological drive you can't prevent it I know what I was like when I was 15 the thing is is the only way is to just make it less likely that a pregnancy will happen as opposed to less likely people have sex because people are going to have sex you're not gonna stop yeah the abstinence only crowd I furiously disagree with for those reasons and I think that because a lot of the absence on the crowd is also imminently pro-life they're kind of creating their own problem I think yeah so I'm not sure if you can think of any other environment where there could possibly be common ground because we're on that like a usual favorite do you agree with me uh well I don't know I do I haven't thought I've all done a lot of my own research on sex ed and stuff like that but I do think that we are so lucky kids these days you know I mean no but like I think that today's culture and environment is so sexual which i think is sad because I think in the day we went like like everything is sex the sex that said about the sex sells everything everything everything is always in your face we truth feminists talk about all the time I know and I think feminists also you know is like you were saying before I think men and women are so different I think men think about sex a lot more than women do our brains look differently the way that we relate to it and everything like this but I think feminists are going and saying women are just like men they can sleep around and have no emotional connection that we're that men can but it's not true women I don't know that any men have sex in a different it's different and I think by feminism and the media Hollywood everything just making sex like oh it's no big deal at this and this and this it's hyper sexualizing our culture and making like younger and younger kids are getting intersex and I think before they even ready their awakening these desires and things like that and so it's becoming like an issue that has not been an issue in the in the past with the older generation I think everyone the heck is going on I mean I think it's becoming more more younger and like also with like you see it like a website I don't get into like okay but the Pride Parade and stuff like that all the kids are running around and you know the little things and kids are being so sexualized and you know all sorts of things I think yes I think it's really important to be educating kids about sex and I think you need to do it in a good and appropriate way and they need to know what's coming and they need to be they need to know about safe sex because you're right it's gonna happen you cannot stop it and but it's really scary now that I guess I don't know what the point I'm trying to make is I'm just trying to say you're gonna have to just cut out everything make no no no no I'm not even try to make a point I'm just saying like I just think you give me your opinion so sexually at a younger age that it's like I don't even know how to – I don't know if I totally agree with the idea that men are more desirous than women like I mean I know it's anecdotal but the girlfriend I had when I was 15 she was way more hungry than I was but the thing is is that I I understand that of the of the girls I've known in my life there have been some incredibly hungry women that I've met and honestly a lot of the studies show that men and women aren't that really different in terms of desire but always the ever looming you know obvious difference where you've got the the threat of a potential pregnancy then one has to consider as a female that a man does not so is that a deterrent for the kid well yeah yeah that's certainly true but I think but I think the difference men and women is I think men can have casual sex and not have then it correct me if I'm wrong I'm not a man but can you have casual sex and and not you know be emotionally attached no as I think girls can't have casual sex like that well it was so emotionally attached and also our brains just work differently at least not entirely for like I mean I I Queensland has legal brothels let's put it that way so I enjoy I enjoy some of that aspect but the thing is is like wait you you told me that you go to brothels I've been to brothels before there's a couple of them they're actually not half bad they're actually quite reasonable but the thing is is that the brothel itself I will say this from going to those versus having a dedicated girlfriend there is an obvious difference and I'm not sure that we really understand like for me there is an obvious emotional connection the the action itself is not as fulfilling as having a dedicated partner I have found that to be a reality so all you know just the casual sex as opposed to a girlfriend or I honestly think that the casual sex thing is missing something I really do and there's a lot of guys I've met who also experienced this especially some that are the real sort of buffed up pretty boys that go out and can pick up any woman they want but they don't they don't ever have that lasting sort of connection with it it's just like a thing you do it's a it's a process that you go through because you you your body is telling you you have to your mind is going crazy and like without the lasting without the lasting impact you are actually missing something as a male at least I experienced that I don't know if others do but I can guarantee that there are other guys that do feel that way I think it's a bit of a cultural sort of myth that men don't there are certainly very predatory men that obviously don't but I'm not I'm not so sure if I'd Bank my money on that to be honest yes fair enough patriarchy patriarchy indeed all I can say at this point is that when it comes to the abortion thing I honestly think that if we want to continue on the theme of what is the middle ground what is the thing that could potentially bring people together I can't think of anything other than sex ed and I I don't know if you can think of anything else yeah because it's like we say it's such a crazy issue so much emotion there's so much nonsense but I think that the best option is that we argue for a platform that prevents the chance of abortion even happening which satisfies both parties to an extent but I get I guess also in the meantime you know I don't I think we shouldn't go extreme either way well I don't think it would go extreme what do you mean like like I just dream we should allow abortion up until the day before the baby's born yeah I think that's a we need sort of tone it down a bit they said that's so extreme let's tone it down a bit let's do more research about the baby in the womb and stuff like that let's come let's come to a really like when it becomes alive well I don't know if you have read the exact qualifications that they have for termination after 22 weeks have you read the exact thing what what do you mean okay so you're arguing you're arguing because at the moment if this goes through its 22 weeks that it's okay after that but yeah so that's the gestation period then you can have an abortion up until the day before it's born as long as a doctor checks off on it yeah so so it has to be that a the medical practitioner considers that in all the circumstances the termination should be performed and the medical practitioner has consulted with another medical practitioner who considers that in all circumstances the termination should be performed now when it's saying that it should be performed they question that as well and they say all relevant medical circumstances must be considered that's they of course and the woman's current and future physical psychological and social circumstances should be considered as well as social ones also include gender selection hmm I haven't seen this yet but so when they talk about the social reasons so social reasons includes gender selection that's a social reason you haven't won that's true that would be if I if the only reason I don't want an abortion is because of the gender of the baby that is still a good enough reason which I don't agree with that let's see it comes I mean it comes down to the in this case it would come down to the practitioners not the mother so you would have to have the the only the only groups are really going to do that is like practices of like Chinese descent or Islamic descent that a problem even if it's only a few people why should we just make it legal anyways because I think that social circumstances that's very broad and that goes way beyond just that so for instance what about an environment where if a woman is found to be pregnant it would utterly destroy her life she would be excommunicated from every social environment she has and that the only circumstance is to basically hide it and keep it under wraps so there's a trade-off between this woman literally losing all event versus just having this done because again social circle well I ruin her life should probably sort the situation now yeah you would think that too but honestly I mean this is this is as broad as it gets obviously so I think that's I think that's really extreme I do too and was really not a very likely event and so I don't think you can make big decisions for everyone so that for tiny little things where if that it's not again also 22 weeks is also a very long period of time as well so if the person hasn't decide by 22 weeks I think that's kind of a thing you know like I think people are going to really look down on that I I don't think this is going to play out truly doomsday –is– I really don't think the gender selection thing is going to be common at all Justice I don't think excommunication from society is going to be a big thing I think that we are really playing with very rare scenarios and talking as if they're going to be very common and all this is doing it looks like yeah sure both of our circumstances are probably valid but again the criticisms that could be thrown at one I think could be thrown at the other like I don't know if that's an argument against it I'd I really don't 22 weeks most of them are probably going to happen within the first I mean a woman can usually while some women don't work out into like five weeks so I don't I don't think this is going to play out doomsday ish I think that this is just a contingency protocol more than it is anything else it's it's a bloody winter contingency that's all it is so like the the professional standards and guidelines that apply to the meditation er in relation to the performance of the termination bla bla bla in an emergency a medical practitioner may perform a termination on a woman who is more than twenty two women weeks pregnant without acting on the super under subsections one and two if the medical practitioner considers it necessary to perform the termination to save the woman's life or life of an unborn child Oh something I haven't read yet they do take account for the child if it is in the case of the what oh wow look at that so if the woman is dying or and they have to save the child with an abortion they well a c-section technically it wouldn't be an abortion at this point but they would that's interesting okay uh well I'm in favor of that so far yeah I'll be honest I'm struggling to find too many issues with this I know we might sort of disagree to an extent on I I see the perspectives that we've been bringing up over this where it's a question of is the child part of the woman or not yeah that's the biggest consent contention beyond that and this is women and there's no cooling-off periods or independent counseling for women making I think that should be certainly included but at the present point the only state that does that is WI and realistically the bulk of this this is a bloody good I think this is a good step in the right direction yeah I I think it might be because looking at the current situation that we have as land virtually none of this exists and it's criminal prosecutable for both the practice into the person in question doing this if I wanted to right now I could I could sign up and go and get an abortion tomorrow don't think you could I can I think you should do a Lauren southern and test that honestly I'm like pregnant so I know you're not I know happen in Queensland all the time hmm true they do well like I say the numbers are citing previous if those are real then it would have to be but no and no one's got like we haven't I don't think why who's having an abortion in the last what I have no I honestly have no idea I don't think it's a common occurrence but so I don't like that I don't know why we need to redo this bill because abortions are happening no one's like a prison I think it's a symbolic as well as a actual legal thing because again well it's not even symbolic because again it is technically legal so it probably should be changed but honestly I actually think you should probably test that that would be an amazing video for your channel as well yeah I I managed to get an abortion than awake like holy shit that would be incredible as a video to watch I could never do that because I could let me see if I can but they they don't know that because if you say if you say I've had a test and I am positive and I'm considering this and you walk in the clinic I mean some women don't even show until quite a long time you could lit like you could go in there of acting as the the scared sort of you know girl that's made a mistake and you're really jumping on this and see what happens you could and I don't think there's a criminal I think you should probably check it but I don't think there's criminal practices for asking these questions so I've just I've just researched and I can to arrange a private appointment for any queries I can I can write now booked an appointment to go and get an acquiring together thing contacts there's heaps of them oh yeah well the the biggest one is um the biggest one is Mary Stopes that's like global because there's a lot of history behind that a surgery I can just go into green slopes this there's actually two of them in in just Brisbane say there's one in Bowen Hills and there's one in the GABA mmm and you would never know it but they are there I I honestly think you should test it and see what happens because honestly if it happens that you could just get it done tomorrow you could just walk in and then work it out that would blow my fucking mind actually I would be distressed at that anyway stress I would be that'd be incredible I I think I could I think if I wanted to I could call up and be like hey I need an abortion and even though I think you should do it alright well let me see what I can do up here yeah see how your anxiety is get well you'll be back at some point but I assume yeah didn't you say so yeah well it did well it um well I guess it just I the time is of the essence if this bill is going to be put through in what a month or so I don't know man because even even if this goes through I don't know if it makes any difference because if they're already doing it so it's crazy you could still make a good point out of it like especially the Christian conservative audience would like the cover for this if you could literally do it within the week that would freak people out that would freak me out I wouldn't I would not be comfortable with that it just happens but let me let me see what I can do I've got an abortion book oh Jesus Christ that's such a horrible thing to say I know but yeah I I really don't think that if you go down that process it'll be easy I seriously think that people would be deeply questioning you and saying okay how are you do you know you're presenting etc if they try and put you through a test just yeah that's when you're trying to get made obviously but yeah I'd avoid that but at the same time like it that that would be fascinating it would blow my mind if you could do it in a week but I don't think you could I think you'd have to wait like a month I really do what will you give me what is what is my reward what do I get if I can do it within a week numerous if you can do it in a week shit they'd have to be I'd imagine they would be I don't think they'd be going I think they would be going all week they'd have to be wouldn't they was there a medical practice and see what yeah see what happens if I can book an appointment for Monday to put my a fictitious child yes I don't think you can I really don't think it'll happen I think they'll look at you and go have you really questioned this have you and picker pick a public one pick something like the Mary Stopes I actually think that's private but even then they're like big big big pro-choice ones they're not like associated with pro-life at all so well if you go down the path of going to the root the people who are like hardcore in favor of this sort of action and it does turn out to be like within the week that's actually kind of worrying and man that's incredible if it can happen so quickly I don't think you will I think up against a lot of roadblocks I think you'll through a lot of soup to get it happening all right well watch this space I'll get back to you on it right all right I will be waiting with bated breath so in such a horrible horrible morbid curiosity but I will all right well I think that's a good place to end it yeah this fucked as it is but it's a challenge and it's a challenge that I will be following up on if you ever do it okay yeah my comments section will probably be exploding by this point but this woman oh my god you'd get a lot of traffic for it I think cuz it's one of those like incredible stunts but yeah alright he's cool well thanks for joining me for the amount of ridiculous time that we've been spending and chatting having me I hope you have fun overseas and all the rest and doing whatever and try not to do anything crazy whatever American things and you know I've heard they're airport security is crazy so don't make any bomb jokes damn it yeah oh my yeah I know I wanted to bring a clock that looks like a bomb and let's see what everyone did invited the Oval Office like that one can I know I might um you know who knows win a Nobel Peace Prize that's not gonna happen in Trump's America not in my land anyway all right but well thank you for talking it's been wonderful I feel a lot of editing and catch your rant awesome I'll talk to you later [Applause]

34 Replies to “MCC: ABORTION!”

  1. Abortion discussion is putting a band-aid on a arterial bleed. The problems that need to be solved are who lied to and manipulated who into that situation in the first place, it goes both ways before men and women start replying blame is always on the other.

  2. 39:30 Aaaaand all of my respect for you was lost.
    Guy causes fetus death: worse than Hitler.
    Girl causes fetus death: weeeell, it depends.
    Gynocentric, much??

  3. My view:
    Abortion is immoral. And is only morally okay under 2 circumstances. The fetus will die before or very soon after birth or the mother will die due to carrying the child.
    But in saying that I think should be legal up until 5 weeks for the reason that people will get abortions regardless if it is legal or not so having it done professionally with govt laws surrounding the practice will ensure the best treatment for the fetus and the mother. I say 5 weeks because some scientists say 6 weeks to grow nerves. While other say 20 weeks I believe we should stay on the side of definitely not harming the fetus.

    If you wish to have a discussion about it please I am willing to talk.

  4. So I ship you and her Gray, you see to get along well.

    Here is my take on abortion, it should be allowed under several circumstances. Like rape, medical issues, and dramatic changes in life. Like the farther leaving or lost of income source that makes so the child would have a poor quality of life. As long as this happen within a window of time.

    I think fathers should have a right to abort, cut ties and responsibilities for the baby. Like fore women there should be limitations to keep guys from going around knocking up a bunch of women and just not taking responsibility. If she lies about being on the pill or a failure of protection. (Like condom breaks or birth control fails)

    The only issue I see is when the farther wants the baby while the mother doesn't, with the exception of rape, this is a tricky situation.

  5. The argument for saying her body her choice as I understand it… is it is her choice to stop being used as life support for the baby.
    If a doctor signs off on the late term abortion of a baby for gender selection he should be struck off (and i suspect would be under most circumstances).

  6. Hey Gray, just wanted to let you know that the medical term abortion is different from the common usage (at least in the US) so that's why they might refer to an abortion saving the life of an unborn child. Technically speaking, an abortion counts as anything that ends a pregnancy before it's natural completion, so any premature births that don't occur naturally would count as abortions.

  7. Let me say from the outset that I am not religious, but believe that a case can be made for the pro life position purely from secular ethics.

    To begin with, I hold that conception is the only really sensible point at which to consider the fetus a distinct human being. It is the point at which a genetically distinct organism is created. Any other measure relies on placing a delineation at an arbitrary point in a fuzzy process. How many neurons need to form before the fetus should be considered a human being? How can you tell how many have formed without disrupting the pregnancy? Where is the clear boundary line between a mass of genetically distinct cells and a human being?

    The claim that this opens the door to considering sperm or eggs as equivalent doesn't really hold water, sperm and eggs are both haploid gametes, neither possesses a complete and distinct genome and therefore shouldn't be considered any more distinct from the body that created them than red blood cells.

    With that as the basis, the discussion turns from whether or not the fetus is human to a discussion of whether the rights of the child or the rights of the mother take precedence. They are in conflict with one another. If the fetus is a human being, they are entitled to all of the rights that entails, including the right to life, while the mother is entitled to her bodily autonomy, and those two necessarily conflict, the mother cannot exercise her right to bodily autonomy without infringing upon the fetus' rights to bodily integrity or life, and likewise vice versa. Supposing we had the technology to transplant fetuses to artificial wombs or willing host mothers the solution would be be to simply do so, the conflict is resolved without infringing on the rights of either party. Unfortunately we do not yet have such technology, so we cannot avoid infringing on the rights of at least one party, in such cases I hold that the best solution is that which places the least burden on either party, which in most circumstances would be that the mother carries the pregnancy to term and puts the child up for adoption, since the burden on her right to bodily autonomy is lesser than the burden posed by abortion on the child's right to life.

  8. I suspect Krok_on is opposed to abortion on purely ideological grounds.

    She's tiptoeing around her motivations, and vague about what she believes. I'm not sure whether she thinks abortion should be allowed to happen at all, or be illegal.

    She implies that women need a cooling off period and counseling before an abortion. That's up to the individual person. I don't believe it's fair to enforce these as mandatory barriers to abortion.

    Krok is employing pseudoscience to justify her beliefs. "Abortion isn't natural! Your body doesn't know how to respond to it!" That's fallacious. Of course there will some hormonal complications. It'll happen whether there's a miscarriage or abortion. But to say that an abortion will cause issues not caused by miscarriage is just fallacious.

  9. Really glad to see reasonable conversation between two people with differing opinions. Keep up the awesome work Gray and Krocs

  10. Hi. Great debate.

    Abortion for any reason up to 12 weeks into the pregnancy has been legal here in Denmark since 1973. You can get an abortion later than that here as well if there are medical reasons. I find that perfectly reasonable. Allowing abortion in the 22. week for any (non medical) reason is pure madness. A "fetus" is potentially viable at 24 weeks for crying out loud! 12 weeks should be more than enough time to realize what is going on and decide whether or not to keep the child. If "that" time of the month has come and passed twice with no event the alarm bells should be ringing loud enough to warrant a small investment in a pregnancy test imo.

    Teaching kids about these issues in proper sex-ed classes is a huge step in the right direction if you want to prevent the issue of deciding whether to get an abortion or not in the first place. In addition to the normal sex-ed by our usual teacher I remember being taken to a special "school" in the other end of town that only dealt with these courses with my class when i was 13 or 14 years old to get a one day crash course in the basics of prevention. Every one of us kids even left with a condom in our pockets… or on the top of our sculls. One girl had one on each leg like a pair of nylons. We all laughed so hard that day. Especially but not only us boys. Like the day when your 8 and find out the word "cock" is in the bible 😀 But we learned a lot as well 😀

    If and when someone actually shows up at a clinic to get help with an unwanted pregnancy i would like to think that they have thought things through and therefore deserves the respect of not having to sit through a long mentally taxing interrogation to justify their reasons for being there. It's ok to inform them of the possible side effects of the procedure as long as you don't let extremist religious nutcases set up fake clinics to punk people out of getting said procedure done. Keep the information unbiased, sober, intellectually honest (based on pier reviewed studies and scientific consensus) and last but not least brief.

    The whole procedure should not take more than a week from application to operation. I don't know how long that period between application and operation actually is in Dk but I'm pretty sure the reasons for it are mainly administrative in nature. As opposed to arbitrarily setting a long wait time to get people to second guess their decisions.

    The pro life movement are mostly christian conservatives, and i think they completely ignore the negative impact that their bigotry have on western society. In most states in U.S.A. there is only one abortion clinic. In some states there are none. Some people have to cross state lines multiple times to get an abortion. Many Americans can't afford this. and will be forced to carry to term or to whip out the old coat hanger themselves. (I'm not condoning this or any other form of self mutilation but understand the desperation that could lead to it) Why? Because local christian conservative politicians make laws to circumvent federal laws like not allowing an abortion clinic within a certain distance of a school or that the halls have to be big enough that a gurney can get through even though that is never required in their practices. These laws are made specifically to get existing clinics closed down. Do people really think that making women carry unwanted / unaffordable pregnancies to term or hurting themselves rather than getting an abortion is going to help that woman more in the long run? Really? You need to just not give them an inch and destroy their carefully constructed strawmen (….Strawpeople? …. I'm so confused) with hard logic and common sense and make secular pragmatic laws in spite of bigotry from minority opinion groups on both sides of the political spectrum. Ignore the extremes and get enough votes from pragmatic secular politicians from both sides of the aisle to pass a good law if that is more possible for you Aussies than for Americans for instance. It is done all the time here in Denmark.

    Good luck in your ongoing fight for more basic human rights and common decency in the gr8 land down under.

    ( Tried to write all this yesterday and was almost done and my bloody computer crashed. I had to write it all again 🙁 but here it is… and a lot longer and more ranting than yesterdays version 😀 )

  11. Sluts who get abortions should get punished. All the pro abortion fools know how to do is strawman and dehumanize.

  12. My issue with abortion is I don't understand the justification for it. I should preface this by saying I'm coming at this from a US perspective, so apologies up front if they're due.

    It seem to me there are three incontrovertible facts about the fetus (I'm using the term 'fetus' to refer to any point of the pregnancy in lieu of the more technical terminology): it's alive; it's human; and it's a unique individual.

    BTW, life doesn't begin at birth or at conception. Life began some 3~4 billion years ago and we are all a continuation of that original organism. What does begin at conception is that an organism distinct from either parent comes into being. That individual human life did not exist prior to that event. That seems rather significant, in my estimation anyway. How then do we justify killing it?

    It should be noted that homicide is not necessarily illegal or immoral. We make provisions in the law for self defense, for executions, and for combat in time of war. Can we not make provision then for abortion? What these things have in common is the person killed is complicit in the action that led to their death. Further, there are very stringent conditions that must be met before the act is allowed. Violate those conditions, and it's murder (or, at the very least, manslaughter).

    The fetus cannot be held responsible for anything and the mother doesn't need to justify her decision. Not trying to be hyperbolic here, but there is no moral difference between putting down a stray dog and 'putting down' an unborn fetus. At least, that's how I see the attitude so many pro-choicers seem to have. In the end, we can't use the same rationale here and thus we need a different basis for the justification. What then?

    In the US, the 'pro-choice' movement argues that the fetus isn't a 'person.' That's by design as this is the language of the US Constitution. (Ms. Clinton was scolded by feminists during the 2016 presidential race for using that term during one of her speeches. I can't source that unfortunately, so I'll understand if you don't want to take my word for it).

    My problem is, this means that 'personhood' is a nothing more than a legal status defined and granted by the government. Well, what the government giveth, the government can taketh away. Does this not mean that we could, by drafting the appropriate legislation, define the term 'person' in any given manner we might choose?

    So for example, how about stripping personhood from convicted felons during their term of imprisonment? Just do away with those pesky human rights and just do whatever the warden felt was appropriate to keep order in the prison and exact whatever justice they see fit. Of course that wouldn't be acceptable, but why not?

    I'd answer that by saying it's because personhood is an intrinsic property of being alive. It isn't something that the government can grant and, equally important, it cannot be revoked by the government. It is, in the language of the US Declaration of Independence, an unalienable right.

    So, while I can understand some of the reasons for abortion, I can't wrap my head around the justification for it (apart from situations where the life of the mother is in jeopardy).

  13. The cut off of 21 weeks is often cited as being the point where a foetus could feasibly survive on its own (with lots of medical assistance). Typically after 24 weeks the survival rate goes up sharply (again, with advanced medical care). That's generally the logic behind 21 weeks gestational age being chosen as the cut off.

  14. I'm only halfway through listening to this. I'm pro choice, first trimester only.
    Gray, I have to say your arguments so far have been pretty bad. Two that really stand out are firstly you say your fine with tax payer funds going to this because its done in a medical facility by professionals. By that rational you're also okay with state funded FGM when done by hospitals if the legality was changed? And given that you are fine with religious people being forced to pay for abortions via taxation, I don't think you can use the religious argument here.
    Secondly, in the example of the boyfriend assaulting the mother and the baby is lost, you say bury them under the prison, but what if the boyfriend really wants to keep the baby and the mother terminates the pregnancy? Consent is denied in both cases, but in one case its murder and the other completely legal. There is a moral equivalence in both situations that isn't being addressed.
    I personally have come to the conclusion that there is almost never a moral argument to be made for abortion, only pragmatic. I wonder if you had considered where you stand on this, judging from some of the things you've said so far I would have to guess you haven't. You always have to use extreme circumstances to make the claim "lesser of two evils".
    And you'll call her out on abortion causes cancer, but you're fine with "jerking off is genocide?". If you're going to call out bullshit from one side, don't use the bullshit from the other. Thats a strawman to an argument no serious person is making.
    Because you'd never guess from this comment, I'd like to finish off by saying you're one of my favourite youtubers and I love ya work. If you really want to hone your skills in this topic, you should listen to Ben Shapiro and figure out some opposition to his view points.

    Edit after finishing the whole clip.
    I'm surprised you don't recognise the re framing done by claiming the baby is part of the woman's body. Its a similar tactic to redefining sexism and racism as privilege plus power. This shallow tactic is completely undone when they state that they are prepared to "save the baby" if the mother is about to die, admitting that the two are in fact separate entities.
    I know its hard to tell, but I really am pro choice. I just hate all this bullshit justification and normalisation of a massive life-changing choice. For me, it really is "I'm going to end the life of my unborn child, because I'm not prepared to parent them for the next decade." I'm alright with some people making that choice, but stop sugar coating it.

  15. I believe a baby is a life at the moment you learn that you're pregnant.
    If you got bad stomach cramps and went to hospital, only to find out you are actually in labour, and then want a miscarriage AT THE MOMENT THE BABY IS BEING BORN, it's totally murder.
    So the exact moment you find out is when it's a life, and abortions should ONLY be allowed on mental or survival terms – which has to be independently determined beforehand case-by-case.
    Yet 3 months is the maximum final chance for an abortion regardless. FULL STOP.
    But there is so much but, but, but, talk and so everyone wants something specific to themselves (i.e. special treatment) when the law should be non-specific for all and special cases must needs be assessed.

  16. You do have to question the when is it a baby line???? Where work a client gave birth prematurely (22 weeks); there were complications but nonetheless this baby (since is outside of the womb) is alive, crying when its hungry, passing excrement.

    Those who say a clump of cells have no idea what they are talking about.

  17. The argument of rape, is that a justification for all abortions? Or just those women who were raped? Thus the others are not justified?

    A man who rapes a woman and she gets pregnant, if it is proven he raped her, the father should have no rights to the child and if she decides to keep the child, the father be forced child support payments.

    In the case of men who were raped by women, and the woman gets pregnant, if it is proven she raped him, and he desires custody of the child, he should get full custody and the mother provide child support with no rights to the child. If he doesn't want the child, the child goes into foster care/orphanage.)

    But all that aside, less than 1% if I remember correctly, of pregnancies result from rapes. If the argument is for that 1% to be allowed abortion, I might agree to that (even though I say the child should not be punished for the crimes of a parent)

    But if that 1% is a justification for all abortions to be allowed, then fuck no.

  18. Life doesn't start at conception, life doesnt "start" at all, it continues. A unique being is created at conception from two already living components.

    Sperm and eggs on their own are just dna fragments of the parents. Asking if masterbation is genocide is stupid. It's like asking if bleeding is genocide because the blood cells are alive.

  19. "abortions are performed in a medical environment, so I can't see them as a crime"

    Someone being given a lobotomy because they are viewed as insane, when they themselves don't want the procedure done, (or don't even need it to be done) even if it's in a medical environment can still be wrong.

    Nazi doctors experimenting on Jews, it was a medical environment, but that doesn't mean it wasn't wrong.

    Slaves being castrated, may have been done in a medical environment, but that doesn't mean it wasn't wrong.

    Just a different way to look at it. Medical environment doesn't equal "good"

  20. Bloody fucking hell. Seriously? "If I jerk off is that genocide?"

    I've never thought this of you before, but No. You fucking moron.

    I blurted that out while listening, even though I'm generally the type that says the first to insult looses the argument.

    What part of "conception is the start of life" is so hard to understand? Before the sperm reaches the egg, no, there is no child. The moment the sperm reaches the egg, conception occurs and it is a child.

    If you don't want to be pregnant, there are three options
    1) abstinence. Aka, don't have sex.
    2) condoms. Which if you're not in a trusted, committed, long term relationship, should always be used.
    3) birth control. There are dozens out there. Plenty for women to choose from. AND progress is being made on a male birth control (which should all really be called conception control, but I digress.)

    Then, if you are pregnant and don't want the child, you have a fourth option
    4) adoption.
    Idk about in Australia, but in the US, there are "safe haven laws" which let's parents leave children at police, firehouses, hospitals, churches, etc, without any legal ramifications.

    Worst case scenario, grow up in an orphanage.

    Still better than being killed because you were unwanted or because the parent(s) couldn't do their damn job.

    What's the solution? Education. Educate adults and teens alike.
    No, birth control and condoms should not be provided by the government. Having sex is not a right. You think you're responsible enough for sex? Then you can get a job and buy the contraception(s) you need.
    If you can't do that, you shouldn't be having sex.

    But then the argument is "stupid people are stupid"

    And will still get pregnant anyways. Yeah, and they should be forced to deal with the consequences of their choices.

    I myself am dealing with the consequences of my choices, where the mother of my child refuses me access.

    I hate the situation but that doesn't mean I would prefer my son dead. Knowing full well how bad it could get, I wanted him to live.

    He should not die because of her and my choices that gave him life.

  21. Abortion is not a woman's issue it's a human issue, woman be damned, and men be damned because I don't care, stop being abortions because of your mistakes. DON'T HAVE SEX AND IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO GET/GET SOMEONE PREGNANT

  22. I'm pro choice, I believe people have the right to make the choice to not have sex and not get pregnant, I don't believe abortion is a viable option outside of specific instances

  23. 43:28 As atheist I understand that burials are not for the dead … they are for the living (coping with loss and prevent diseases)

  24. Thank you for calling her out on abortion causing cancer. That's a total bullshit lie pushed by religious organizations with an agenda to push who seem to ignore that pesky commandment about lying. I'm glad you called her out on that. It's good you were friendly about it. There's no gain to being confrontational just for the sake of being a dick. But I was afraid you were going to let the lie stand.

    EDIT: I got to the part where she's talking about Planned Parenthood selling baby parts. Those videos were edited to mislead. She's merely quoting talking point after talking point that is inaccurate. I'd guess that she has been lied to and hasn't perhaps done due diligence to challenge things that agree with her viewpoint (aka, confirmation bias), but that she's sincere in her beliefs. But she's saying a lot of things that are provably incorrect. That's one of my problems with anyone with an agenda, no matter what their political spectrum location is.

  25. I am against abortion since quite a few women or a lot of "feminist" don't want men to have judicial abortion so then both men and women will get equal reproduction rights.

  26. I recommend this article about abortion by Heather Heying. Gives a really well thought out perspective.
    https://areomagazine.com/2018/08/24/on-abortion-time-space-error-and-ethics/

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