The Godfather of Vaccines – 10 – Vaccine Ingredients


Q: Are you familiar with
a 2015 study entitled Highly — Actually, you know what?
Before we continue, I’m going to mark this one. The study I just spoke about,
I’m going to mark as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 32. Q: I’m going hand this to you. In this study,
if you turn to page 5, you can actually see pictures of the brain
of dissected mice injected with aluminum and pictures of the aluminum in the brain. Let me know when you’ve had
an opportunity to look at that. A: Yes. Okay. Q: That’s from 2013. I’m going to show you another study from 2015
being marked Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 33. This study involved 155 mice,
again injected with aluminum. And, again, you can find pictures of the aluminum
in the dissected mice in their brains. Since we’re running short on time, I won’t hand you all the studies on this. But having had an opportunity
just for the last few minutes to look at a few of these studies, do you have any — can aluminum injected into the body
travel to the brain? A: Well, there are experiments
suggesting that that is possible. A: The, in particular,
there’s a, I know there’s a French group
that’s been, let’s say, working on
the potential dangers of aluminum as well as the British Columbia group. What we lack is evidence in humans that such phenomena are causing
the problems that are being caused in mice, and that may relate to dose issues. Q: Isn’t that because those studies
would be unethical, Dr. Plotkin? A: No, I wouldn’t say they’d be unethical. I would say that looking for aluminum deposits
in the brains of people at autopsy, et cetera, that’s entirely feasible. Q: And so if they did autopsies
of people’s brains and they found aluminum, then that would be a cause for concern? A: It could be. But one would need to combine that or look at the symptoms of the patients
whose brains are being examined. Q: I’m going to hand you
one final study on this. It’s been marked Plaintiff’s Exhibit 34. This one they were very careful,
my understanding is, to do a number of different doses
to see the response. A: This is the French group. Q: That study is the French group, right,
that I think you were referring to earlier? A: Yes. Q: So in any event, if aluminum bound to antigen
does travel to the brain, Dr. Plotkin, and remains there, would that cause
an immune activation event in the brain? A: I don’t know whether it would or not. Q: Do you think it could result
in neurodevelopmental disorders? A: Again, there’s no evidence that
that’s the case. Q: I’m going to hand you what’s being marked — I’m going to hand you what’s marked Exhibit 35. Are you familiar with — Are you familiar with this book? A: No. Q: I’ll give you a copy today
when you leave. MS. RUBY: Ms. Nieusma, Exhibit 35 is uploading,
but it might take just one second. MS. NIEUSMA: Okay. No problem. BY MR. SIRI
Q: Dr. Plotkin, has an increase in IL-6 been shown
to induce autism-like features in lab animals? A: Well, IL-6 is an inflammatory cytokine. And its relationship to autism,
I would say, is not clear. But it is an important cytokine. Q: Has it been shown
to induce autism-like features in animals when injected
into animals for experimentation? A: I’m not aware of that, but it’s quite possible that
that could happen if you use enough IL-6. Q: Do you know
the maximum amount — strike that. Are you familiar with the study out of — are you familiar with the study entitled Inhibition of IL-6 Trans-Signaling in the Brain Increases Social Ability
in the BTBR Mouse Model of Autism? A: No. Q: Are you familiar with the study called Maternal Immune Activation Alters
Fetal Brain Development through Interleukin-6? A: Vaguely, yes. Yeah. Q: Published in the Journal of Neuroscience? A: Yeah, well,
I don’t remember the journal. Q: Is that one of the journals
you consider respectable? A: Yes. Q: This was out of
the University of California Medical Center. This is from California Institute, CalTech. That institution did
a number of studies regarding — that group did a number of studies
relating to immune activation and neurological disorder, correct? A: Yes. Q: And they found a connection between immune activation
and neurological disorders, correct? A: Mm-hmm. Q: And one of the —
is that a yes? A: Yes. Q: And one of the study’s findings
they had was that immune activation alters fetal brain
development through interleukin-6, correct? A: As I said before,
IL-6 is an important cytokine. I would point out in relation
to immune activation, that immune activation
occurs as a result of disease and exposure to a variety of stimuli,
not just vaccines. Q: But it can be caused by vaccines,
correct? A: Immune activation
is the objective of vaccines. Q: Do you know the maximum amount
of the aluminum that is injected into a child
who follows the CDC schedule? A: I haven’t done the arithmetic, but I believe it would amount
to several milligrams. Q: I’m going hand you
what’s been marked as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 36. And before I do that,
question for you: The group out of the British Columbia that you were — The group out of
the University of British Columbia, that’s out of the Department
of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences? A: Yeah. Q: I’m going to hand you a letter from, what’s been marked as Exhibit 36, which is a letter from one of the professors
that runs the lab in that group? VIDEO OPERATOR:
We have four minutes left on the disc. MR. SIRI: Okay. BY MR. SIRI: Q: Have you seen this letter before? A: No. Q: This letter is from the group at the University of British Columbia
you mentioned before, correct? A: Yes. Q: And it’s addressed to HHS,
correct? A: Yes. Q: As well as NIH? A: Yes. Q: FDA and CDC, correct? A: Yes. Q: In the first paragraph, can you read the first paragraph? A: I am writing to you
in regard to aluminum adjuvants in vaccines. The subject is one my laboratory
works on intensively and, therefore,
where I feel I have some expertise. In particular, we have studied
the impact of aluminum adjuvants in animal models of neurological disease,
including autism spectrum disorder. Our relevant studies on the general topic
of aluminum neurotoxicity in general and specifically in regard to adjuvants
are cited below. Q: Now, can you read
the last sentence in the next paragraph. A: In children there is growing evidence
that aluminum adjuvants may disrupt developmental processes
in the central nervous system and, therefore,
contribute to ASD in susceptible children. Q: And just the next paragraph. A: Despite the foregoing, the safety of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines
has not been properly studied in humans, even though pursuant to the recommended
vaccine schedule published by the Centers for Disease Control, a baby may be injected
with up to 3.675 micrograms of aluminum adjuvants
by six months of age. Q: Just the next sentence
and I guess we can wrap up. A: And in regards to the above, it is my belief that the CDC’s claim
on its website that vaccines do not cause autism
is wholly unsupported. So my comments are, one, that
my estimate was pretty much correct. Second, that, unfortunately, Dr. Shaw has been associated
with the party that I mentioned before, Tomljenovic, who, in my view, is completely untrustworthy as far as scientific
data are concerned. So I’m concerned about Dr. Shaw
being influenced by that individual. I’m not aware
that there is evidence that aluminum disrupts the developmental
processes in susceptible children. Q: Dr. Shaw is a scientist
that studies aluminum regularly, correct? A: Yes. Q: Do you study aluminum regularly? A: No. MR. SIRI: Are we done? VIDEO OPERATOR: Yep. This ends tape four
of the deposition of Dr. Stanley Plotkin. We are going off the record.
The time is 16:33. (Brief recess.) VIDEO OPERATOR: This is the beginning
of Disc No. 5, the deposition of Dr. Stanley Plotkin. We are on the record.
The time is 16:43. BY MR. SIRI
Q: Now, Dr. Plotkin, I’m handing you what has been marked
as Plaintiff’s Exhibits 37 and 38. Q: Are these letters
also written by individuals who are very experienced
in studying aluminum adjuvant? A: Yes. Well, one of the letters —
Q: Okay. A: — is from a French group.
And I would point out that — MS. NIEUSMA: Remember,
just yes or no answers, Dr. Plotkin. We’re trying to get you out of there. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. SIRI
Q: Is the content of these letters similar to that of the letter
from Chris Shaw? A: Yes. Q: Dr. Plotkin, I’m going to hand you
what’s been marked as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 39. This is a study entitled:
Aluminum in the Brain Tissue in Autism, correct? A: Yes. Q: And it was published in the Journal
of Trace Elements in Medicine and Biology, correct? A: Yes. Q: And it found,
and according to its author, he found what he says is some of the highest
values of aluminum in human tissue yet recorded in the brains of these autistic children
who died prematurely, correct? A: Well, I’d have to read the paper,
but apparently that’s the case. Q: And do you know that the stand-out observation
in this study is that the aluminum that he found
was in the immune cells of the brain, including within immune cells
traveling into the brain? A: Yes. But they were not associated with neurons. Q: They also found aluminum in the neurons
as well, Dr. Plotkin, correct? A: But mostly in other cells. Q: And immune-related cells, right,
immune-system-related cells? A: Cells that travel, yes. Q: What is encephalitis? A: Inflammation of the brain. Q: What is encephalopathy? A: Well, it’s a vague term that means
something’s wrong with the brain. Q: What is encephalomyelitis? A: Inflammation of the brain. Q: Do all five of the DTaP-containing
vaccines sold in this country list encephalopathy
within seven days of a prior pertussis-containing
vaccine as a contraindication? A: In other words, if encephalitis is present
at the time of vaccination? Q: Mm-hmm. A: Yes, I imagine so. Q: No. Meaning that
if there was encephalopathy within seven days of a prior
pertussis-containing vaccination, that’s a contraindication
to getting more pertussis vaccination? A: Oh, yes. Q: And do all three
of the hepatitis A-containing vaccines sold in this country
list encephalitis or encephalopathy as a reported adverse reaction
in Section 6.2 of their product inserts? A: Well, I don’t know that for sure, but I imagine that it is a contraindication. Q: Do all three
of the hepatitis B-containing vaccines sold in this country
list either encephalitis or encephalopathy as a reported adverse reaction
in Section 6.2 of their product insert? A: Yes. Q: Do almost all of the flu vaccines
sold in this country list encephalopathy or encephalomyelitis — Q: Do almost all of the flu vaccines
sold in this country list encephalopathy or encephalomyelitis as a reported adverse reaction in 6.2 — Q: — of their insert?
A: Yes. Q: Does the only chicken pox vaccine
sold in this country list encephalitis
as a reported adverse reaction? A: Yes. Q: Why do you think brain swelling after
vaccination is being reported in all of these vaccines? A: Anything that happens after vaccination
is included in contraindications. That they are related causally
is not necessarily the case. Q: What is the total quantity of antigen
in most pediatric vaccines? A: Well, that’s very variable.
I mean, perhaps up to 50 milligrams. Depends entirely on the vaccine. Q: Miniscule amount, though, very tiny?
A: Yes. Q: Could you even see it
with the naked eye if you had it? A: Yeah,
you could in some cases, yes. Q: Some cases?
A: Mm-hmm. Q: But for most vaccines,
it would probably be very difficult? A: Yes. Q: Are there any ingredients in vaccines that you’re aware of
that can damage neurons? A: Not that I’m aware of, no. Q: Are there any vaccines, any ingredients in vaccines that you’re aware of
that can damage human cells? A: Oh, well, I mean, that depends
on the concentrations and so forth. Human cells, of course,
are susceptible to lots of substances. But, again, it’s very much dependent
on the concentration. Q: Do any of the vaccines on the childhood schedule
contain monkey kidney cells? A: Well, the polio vaccine does. Q: Okay. Go ahead. I’m sorry. A: Go ahead. I’ll stop there. Q: Are the monkey kidneys
used in making the polio vaccine removed from the monkey
while the animal is still alive? A: These days much of the polio vaccine
is produced in a continuous cell line derived from monkeys rather than from monkeys,
from live monkeys, so to speak. So I’m pretty sure that the IPOL vaccine,
for example, is produced in vero cells. Q: And when you say continuous cell line,
what do you mean by that? A: I mean a cell that grows continuously derived from tissues
that were normal tissues to begin with. Q: I’m sorry.
Say that again, Doctor. A: So they are cells that continue to multiply,
unlike cells from a, let’s say, from a kidney
that will not continuously multiply. These are cells derived from the kidney
that will continue to multiply and, therefore,
can be used to make vaccines in. Q: Cells that continue to multiply unabated
are typically considered cancerous, right? A: Well, if, it depends
on the circumstances in the cells. But it’s true that cancer cells
do continue to replicate indefinitely. The vero cells are only used
at certain passage levels. They’re not used, you know,
a thousand passages further on. Q: In relation to the amount of polio antigen
in the final polio vaccine product, how much monkey kidney cell material
is there in the final product? Is it about the same amount? Is there more monkey kidney cell?
Is there less? A: No. I can’t give you a figure offhand. But the, I am pretty sure that the amount of polio antigen
is superior to the amount of kidney antigen. Q: But you’re not sure? A: I don’t recall the exact amounts. Q: Monkey cellular material
remaining in the vaccine is considered either impurities or byproduct
of the manufacturing process, correct? A: Yes. Q: Do any vaccines
in the childhood vaccine schedule contain blood serum
from calves or other bovines? A: Well, frequently calf serum
is used to make the vaccine, but calf serum is removed
before the vaccine is used because you don’t want to sensitize
the vaccinee to cows. Q: Meaning if there was cow serum
remaining in the vaccine, the child could develop antibodies
to essentially cow — Q: — cow products?
A: Yes. Q: And that would be — and they could develop an allergy to it,
right? A: If there were, yes. Q: If there were calf serum
in the vaccines, Q: Correct?
A: Yes. Q: But you’re saying there’s no calf serum
in vaccines, right? A: It is removed, yes. Q: Dr. Plotkin, I’m going to hand you
what’s been marked as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 40. What is this? A: Vaccine Excipient & Media Summary. Q: And who produces this document,
the CDC, correct, or the FDA? A: I think it’s the FDA. Q: Okay. And this lists the ingredients
contained in various vaccines, correct? A: Yes. Q: Can you go to Kinrix
on the first page. That’s K-I-N-R-I-X. A: Yes. Q: DTaP-IPV. Do you see in the
third line down it says: Calf serum? A: Yeah. Well, that is used to grow the polio virus. Q: Right. And this is one of the ingredients
that remains in the vaccine? A: I do not believe so. I mean, the vaccine, as I said, is made using calf
serum as a nutrient, but it is then — Q: Removed because, otherwise,
it would be dangerous, you said, right? A: Yes. Q: Can you go to the top of this document.
You see, it says — you know what? Let me ask you a few other questions, and then we’ll come back to this document,
Dr. Plotkin. Few quick questions
and then we’ll come back to it. Do any vaccines on the childhood schedule
contain embryonic guinea pig cultures? A: Embryonic guinea pig. I don’t think any current vaccine is made
in guinea pig cells. Varicella vaccine
was passaged in guinea pig cells, but certainly
not made in guinea pig cells. Q: Do you know if any vaccines contain
cows’ milk in it or products from cow — A: Cows’ what? Q: Any product derived from cows’ milk, any component derived from cows’ milk? A: Could be, casein, for example, could be — Q: Casein —
A: — could be used. Q: Dr. Plotkin, and if there was casein
in the vaccine, a child could become sensitized to that,
correct? A: No, I’m not sure about that. Q: You’re not sure
anymore about that? A: No. A: I think there are other
sensitizing things in calf serum. Q: Dr. Plotkin, can I see that a second. To be sure.
Did I give you the right one? So earlier you said — okay. So do any vaccines contain egg protein? A: Oh, yes. Influenza vaccines. Q: And do those remain in the final product? A: I believe they do, yes. Not huge amounts,
but there are traces certainly. Q: Do any vaccines contain gelatin from pigs? A: Yes. Q: Do any vaccines contain gelatin from cows? A: Actually, I think in Muslim countries, they have tried to do that. But mostly it’s from pig. Q: Do any vaccines contain
recombinant GMO yeast? A: Recombinant GMOs. Yes, I imagine so, yes. Q: Are there any other animal products,
parts, cells, material, or any other kind
that you are aware of that are contained in any vaccine
in the pediatric schedule? A: Well, aside from trace amounts, no. MS. NIEUSMA: Guys,
unfortunately, my 5:00 is here, so I’ve got to cut this short. MR. SIRI: Well, we’re not,
we’re not done. We need to, you know,
so we’re going to — BY MR. SIRI: Q Can you come back
tomorrow morning, Dr. Plotkin? A: No. Absolutely not. MR. SIRI: Okay. Well, Counsel,
we need to, how long is your — you need to move
whatever you have right now, then. MS. NIEUSMA: No, I don’t. MR. SIRI: I’m not done with the deposition. MS. NIEUSMA: Then re-notice it for a second day. MR. SIRI: I don’t — no. The notice says:
From day to day. He’s under subpoena. He needs to be here today. It’s only, it’s only 5:00. And it says: From day to day.
So tomorrow’s the next day. MS. NIEUSMA: If he’s not available,
he’s not available. You guys can feel free to have him held in contempt
while he’s in Pennsylvania, but I gotta go. MS. RUBY: Are you available in
a half an hour or something, that we could take
a short break? MS. NIEUSMA: Yeah, I can do that. MR. SIRI: Okay.
So let us know when you’re done. Half an hour. We’ll start at 5:30, then,
or if you get done earlier. THE WITNESS:
Does she have to be present? MR. SIRI: Do you mind if we continue
without you being present? Dr. Plotkin says
he’s fine with continuing without you. MS. NIEUSMA: As long as he’s okay with that,
that’s fine with me. I think he’s got
a pretty good handle on things. So I’m not too concerned. MR. SIRI: Okay. Great.
Then we’ll continue. MS. NIEUSMA: All right. MR. SIRI: Thank you. MS. RUBY: Ms. Nieusma,
if you want to rejoin the conversation, obviously you can dial back in. MS. NIEUSMA: Yeah. I’m just going
to leave you guys on speaker in my office and do this in the conference room
and I’ll be back. MS. RUBY: Okay. BY MR. SIRI
Q: Do any vaccines on the childhood vaccine schedule
contain MRC-5 human diploid cells? A: Yes. Q: What are these? A: Rubella,
varicella, hepatitis A. Q: What are MRC-5 cells? A: They are human fibroblast cell strain. Q: And how are they created? A: They were created by taking fetal tissue
and — from a particular fetus
that was aborted by maternal choice. And the cells, so-called fibroblast cells
were cultivated from that tissue. The fibroblast cells
replicate for about 50 passages and then die. Q: So MRC-5 cells are cultured cell lines
from aborted fetal tissue? A: They’re not cell lines. Q: What are they? A: They’re cell strains
cultivated from an aborted fetus, yes. Q: So cell strains from an aborted fetus? A: Yeah. They’re not immortal. Q: They live for five generations
and then they die? A: About 50 generations. Q: About 50 generations
and then they die? A: Yes. Q: And then how is more MRC-5 created? A: Well, a seed stock
is made of early passage cells so that one can go back to the seed stock, which is, let’s say,
at more or less the eighth passage and make new cells
at the 20th passage and use those to make the vaccine. Q: So these cell strains are human cells? A: Yes. Q: Do any vaccines
on the childhood vaccine schedule contain WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblast? A: Well, they used to, but I don’t think anything is made
in those cells anymore. They have been replaced by MRC-5. Q: So you’re not aware of any vaccine that has in its final formulation
WI-38 human diploid lung fibroblasts? A: As I said,
at one point in the past, RA 27/3, for example,
rubella vaccine, was grown in WI-38. But the supply is insufficient,
so MRC-5 is now used. Q: And WI-38 was created
from an aborted fetus? A: Yes. Q: They took the lung tissue
from the aborted fetus? A: Yes. Q: And from that
they’d grown this cell line, correct? A: Yes.
Cell strain. Q: Cell strain. Q: Is this cell line immortal? A: No. Q: Do any vaccines in the childhood vaccine
schedule contain human albumin? A: Oh, yes. Q: What is human albumin? A: Human albumin is part of human serum. Q: And what is human serum? A: What is human serum? Human serum is part of the blood
that is liquid. Q: It’s the non-red
blood cell part of the — Q: — of the blood, right?
A: Yes. From where was it obtained? A: The human serum? Q: Yes. A: Well,
that would be variable from donors who are healthy donors. That’s all I can say to that. Q: How is it used
in the manufacturing process? A: I’m sorry? Q: How is it used in the manufacturing process? A: Well, serum is used
to keep cells healthy during the process
of making a vaccine. So, in other words, since the vaccines or some vaccines
have to be grown in cells, you have to keep the cells in a good state. Q: So the cells that are used — the virus or bacteria — the viruses used in some of the vaccines are
grown in this human blood component? A: Well, yes. I believe that the serum
is removed in the final product, but certainly it’s important
to keep the cells healthy during the manufacture
of the vaccine. Q: So none of it remains in the final product? A: I don’t believe so, no. Q: Because that could be problematic, right? A: Well, it could be. I mean, if the individual is not healthy. Q: Right. Or if maybe some of the,
you know, human blood components bind to some of the aluminum
and develop antibodies, self-antibodies, correct? A: If they develop antibodies
against the serum component, that would not be good. Q: Do any vaccines
contain human material in them that — I’m sorry. Strike that. Apologies. Do any vaccines in the childhood vaccine
schedule contain recombinant human albumin? A: Yes. Q: What is recombinant human albumin,
A-L-B-U-M-I-N? A: So it’s a component
of human serum which is useful to stabilize
cells and keep them healthy, and it’s made by genetic engineering. Q: Okay. So it’s genetically engineered
human serum basically? A: Part of human serum, yes. Q: Are these genetically engineered
protein structures? A: Yes.
And the idea was to eliminate any possibility of a contaminant
from human albumin obtained from the donors. So it’s made in cells, using the DNA for albumin, and that way one can be sure
that there’s no contaminant. Q: And, again,
you pretty much want to make sure that none of that
remained in the final product, too, right? A: Well, human albumin
is probably not much of a problem in terms of causing reactions. So — Q: But in terms of it potentially
binding to the alum, that could be problematic, correct? A: I don’t know the answer to that question. Q: The vaccines
that contain human material in them, they also contain human DNA
and protein, correct? A: They may, yes. Q: Isn’t it true that human DNA in vaccines is typically purposefully fragmented
to below 500 base pairs in length? A: Yes. One doesn’t, you know, I would say mostly for
theoretical reasons, doesn’t want to put DNA into,
attacked DNA into vaccines. I think the actual risk is zero,
but that’s my opinion. Q: Isn’t it true that MMR II contains approximately
150 nanograms cells substrate double-strand DNA and single-strand DNA per dose purposefully fragmented to approximately
215 base pairs in length? A: Yeah, that’s probably correct, yes. Q: And is it true that VARIVAX, vaccine for chicken pox,
is manufactured using WI-38 and MRC-5 and contains approximately 2 micrograms
of cell substrate double-strand DNA and contains approximately 2 micrograms
of cell substrate double-strand DNA or approximately 1 trillion
fragments of human DNA? A: It may be true. Q: Isn’t it true that Havrix,
the hepatitis A vaccine, also contains millions of fragments of human DNA? A: Likely. Q: Do you know whether strands of DNA
below 500 base pairs are now known to insert themselves into living cells
with which they come into contact? A: I do not have that information, but the likelihood
that they would be genetically included in the genome of vaccinees,
in my view, is zero. Q: Do you have a study to support that view? A: I do not have a study
that supports that view. But it is, to me,
unlikely that the DNA would travel from the site of injection
to the semen or the ovaries. Q: Could it insert itself into DNA
even in the muscle tissue or if it gets into the blood into — A: Theoretically. But that’s not going to mean
that it’s going to have any impact on the individual. Q: Are you familiar with
the insertional mutagenesis? A: Yes. Q: Do you have any study to show that injecting millions of pieces of human DNA
into babies and children is safe? A: The only studies are all the safety studies
that have been done on vaccines. Q: And you can produce those studies, right? A: Well, those studies are available
from the manufacturers and from CDC, and I’m not aware of any data showing that the inheritable characteristic
was transmitted by a vaccine. Q: So you personally don’t know of any study that shows the safety of injecting millions pieces of human DNA into babies? A: Such studies are general safety studies, and I haven’t yet seen the vaccinee develop
a new genetic trait as a result of vaccination. Q: Is it possible it can cause cancer? A: Anything is possible,
but there are no data to support that. Q: Is there data to show that it doesn’t do that? A: Yes. Observations made over millions of vaccinees. Q: Okay. And you have the studies
to show that, right? A: The studies are easily available in terms of vaccine safety studies
that have been done by many, many people. Q: Excellent. Then it should be very easy for you
to direct me to those and can provide copies? A: Yes. You can read the chapter
on vaccine safety. Q: Vaccines contain
dead or weakened polio virus, correct? A: IPV does, yes. Q: Beginning in the 1950s, polio vaccines were routinely grown
on nonhuman primate kidney cells, correct? A: Correct. Q: Are you aware of any simian monkey viruses, meaning viruses that come from primates, that contaminated polio vaccines and infected individuals
receiving the polio vaccine? A: Yes. SV40. Q: What does that SV40 stand for? A: Simian virus 40. Q: Was it the 40th simian virus found? Q: Is that why it’s called 40?
A: Yes.

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